Any agnostics/atheists send their child(ren) to a faith school? How do you handle the inevitable discrepencies between home/school beliefs?

[frenchtoast]

Like this: DS (4) at 4am this morning: "Mum, do you know why a robin's tummy is red? To remind us of Jesus' blood." Mum: "Ah, right, yes that's what some people believe. And other people believe different things. What do you think?"

DS goes to this school because it is a good school, we like their flexible attendance philosophy for reception, it's small, it's two minutes' walk away (and the only school within walking distance) and he knows almost all the children - so given that nothing's ideal, a pretty good option.

And because it's a Church-aided rather than full-on faith school, I didn't think it would be too full-on, Christianity-wise; I was told that many faiths would be learned about. But clearly one is taught as THE faith.

I want DS to know about all these beliefs and make up his own mind about what he believes: he doesn't have to believe the same as me or school. But I'm a bit uncomfortable about four-year-olds being taught that a robin's tummy is red to remind us of Jesus' blood.

Any reflections? TIA.

DD has recently started a C of E Middle School. There wasn't a huge amount of choice about her going there really. The local first schools (I think four out of about 12 are church schools) feed into three Middle Schools (the other two aren't church schools ) and it goes under the usual LEA admittance criteria. Then the Middle schools feed into the Upper school which also isn't a Church school.

Down the road we have a catholic primary school which is completely different (runs on primary/secondary rather than the 3 tier system the rest run on). So it is a complete mish mash of church and non-church schools.

DD was exposed to a fair amount of religion at her first school (not one of the church ones) and I will admit to quietly hitting the roof when she came home going on about creation but quickly countered it with evolution. She accepts that different people have different beliefs and seems to cope fine with whatever religious aspects there are at school. I get on fine with those of her friend's parents who are Christians and the whole thing has never been an issue. In fact I forget that it is a church school most of the time.

Pruners, in response to your post to me, I don't think I have missed your point. And - imo - your post proves my point.

It is perfectly possible to express an anti-faith position without being deliberately offensive. You can say that - in your view - god does not exist without calling him an "imaginary friend" or even as describing the faithful as "irrational" (although I never would) without calling them "superstitious" or "fucking loons" as we have had here. You certainly manage to. Similarly there are ways of saying that the bible is - to you - a story or a myth or even nonsense without (most people) being offended. I am not saying that one has to pussyfoot around anyone with faith but there are some here who are so deliberately antagonistic and a little courtesy would go a long way.

UQD, have to laugh at your post! - and obviously must look up Theo Hobson. In my experience (on MN mainly but also in RL) the smug fatuous buggers are almost invariably the atheists. Is that not yours too?!

'Imaginary friends' and 'superstitions' are a quick shorthand way of referring to Jesusgodallahzeusjehovahmaryramasitabaronsamediapolloceridwenganesh... and all the rest of'em. I am an equal-opportunities superstition-derider. DOn't feel that your imaginary friend is being singled out from teh rest.

Do you really believe that, solidgoldbrass? That using the term "imaginary friend" is just quick shorthand and that you are not deliberately trying to offend? And that my point is any way remotely re equal opportunities??

Because fyi "god/gods" and "faith" are much quicker to type and you may find that someone actually pays attention to what you have to say if replace the terms you use.

i agree with your post fivecandles, i gave much kudos to a poster much further down who said that her child goes to the nearest faith school becuase she cant be arsed! i think thats what it is a lot of the time.

Thanks to the OP - this is a really interesting thread that asked the question I've been wondering about since DS's nursery class has started being invited to 'services' at the local school. Apart from RC state schools, there aren't 'faith' state schools in Scotland. Nevertheless so far it's been Harvest thanksgiving (including prayers), carol service at school, and service at Church (CoS) for all the local schools. I'm keeping him off that day. He's only 4, not even at school yet and I thought I'd have another year till I had to deal with superstitious (sp?) stuff!

I like a lot of the responses about how to deal with it - my problem is that DS never lets on anything about what he's done at playgroup. It's a struggle to find out from him what he had for a snack, so I don't know what he would make of robin's tummies!

The one thing that I worry about is that out of a school role of about 50, we're marking him out as the offspring of subversives - atheists, veggies and scot nats .

Yup. Quick shorthand and accurate.

How, well, irrational of you, sgb

emmm, could I ask that the thread is kept to the point of OP's original post? No offense intended, but I came on to read helpful responses from like-minded people. Not to have to plough through hijacks from people who are religious and offended by posts.

[runs away quickly]

I'm afraid you will find that threads move on. Asking people to stop their conversation may irritate, and in this case the subsequent conversation is in any case relevant (although part of a long running debate on threads of this nature).

Re. your son, I doubt that you need to worry quite yet. Children are quite accepting at this age, and I doubt your ds will tell anyone why he wasn't at school that day. You may find issues later if there are no similar parents. Personally I don't think it is great to stand out for reasons outside of your control, but others will tell you that it is good for children to be themselves and not worry about peer pressure. It probably depends on the child.

Have sped read through this as I remembered the story of the robin from school and was feeling nostalgic . Am vaguely irritated by the intolerance towards, and amused by the ignorance of, mainstream Christian religions, by some posters. Personally I don't care who or what people believe in or don't believe in, but then I'm a Christian and being tolerant is part of that.
To clarify some misinformation, the allegories of the Old Testament, including the story of creation, are not viewed as factual by RC and mainstream protestant churches. They are told as stories. Darwin is fully acknowledged by these churches and ( ) even taught in faith schools.
If your children go to faith schools they are going to be exposed to some sort of religious teachings. At four and five they may take things at face values, as they get older they hopefully will make up their own minds one way or the other. Telling them that any other belief other than yours is crap is a poor lesson in freedom of thought or respect.
BTW I remember clearly having a discussion with my friends and our lovely teacher, Martha Murphy, that the robin story could only have been a story (just like other stories we were told before home time at school) because the little robin would never have been able for the heat in the Holy Land, or the journey back home .

You're keeping your son off his Christmas carol concert because it's 'superstitious stuff?'

How does he feel about that?

Interesting thread. We just moved to better schools and the primary is C of E. I myself went to a C of E whcih is probaly why I was not at all worried about this. My parents were fundamentalist, creationist xians. So were dh's. We are both refugees.

We are both atheists but I value my knowledge of the bible and easy access to all the cultural references to xian culture. I would like dd to have the same knowledge minus the more extreme family input. And it's only primary school. If it were secondary school, there I would draw the line.

I do think the story about the Robin is going a bit too far personally - that would annoy me.

I've just applied for my DS to start at a CofE primary in Sept 09 because it is by far the best school in our area.
Me and DP are in no way religious so now concerned after reading all this that maybe I should change my mind?!

Abraid - I'm not keeping him off the carol concert. I'm letting him go to it because it's at the school, and it's kids singing - it's not going to cause him any confusion.
I'm not putting him to the church service because he's 4, it's totally outwith his experience to date, and I would rather have some input to that understanding. I'm not saying I'll never let him go to church, just not at this point.
As for what he thinks - he's 4! He hasn't got a clue that it's happening let alone that he's not going.
My reference to superstitious stuff was in agreement with previous posters, as that is my personal view of religion. I did not expect to have the high level of religious input at a non-denominational playgroup for 3 and 4 year olds.

a robin's red breast being that colour to remind us of Jesus' blood?

it's not the fact that its bollocks that bothers me. its the fact that it's not even christian bollocks, but the teacher clearly believes it for some completely arbitary reason - perhaps it was a thought that occurred to her on the way to school, who knows?

its' certainly not biblical or part of any christian doctrine i've heard of. it's just nonsensical crap someone's just made up. that's what i'd be worried about.

The best way to turn your child into a 'raving christian' is to go on about religion being fairytales and pulling them out of carol concerts. Just wait for the backlash

can i just point out that at easter, eggs represent new life at christmas candles represent light etc.. i could go on + yes i am an re teacher!!!! a lot of this is symbolism that people traditionally believe represented ideas, doesnt mean it actually stands for things. we are not allowed to teach one religion as more prominant than another, i didnt get bibles out when teaching christianity. i taught the teachings of islam with the same respect that i covered hindu beliefs and jewish traditions. wether you ae religious or not, re based issues give pupils a good opportunity to discus ideas and form their own opinions. many would be anti abortion at secondary age but if i asked them if they got their irlfriend pregnant at say 14 what would they do? i would then go on to say that some might use a religious belief eg life is sacred to make their decision but no one concept is better than another. by the way, if you are so anti religion i expect you won't be celebrating christmas in 2 weeks as it has a religious foundation which is full of religious symbolism....!!!

ds goes to a normal non-denominational school but it turns out it is very Christian - seems to have a strong relationship with the local Methodist church (someone told me they took over the Methodist nursery when they opened the foundation unit).

I quite like it as Christianity is his cultural background, shaped this country and Western Europe etc. etc. etc. But I can see why it would irritate some parents.

He does come back home saying things about God the Father and praising God etc. etc. etc. I just nod and smile - he'll find out more about it as he grows up. (Am CofE/agnostic myself and dh is an atheist.)