Any agnostics/atheists send their child(ren) to a faith school? How do you handle the inevitable discrepencies between home/school beliefs?

[frenchtoast]

Like this: DS (4) at 4am this morning: "Mum, do you know why a robin's tummy is red? To remind us of Jesus' blood." Mum: "Ah, right, yes that's what some people believe. And other people believe different things. What do you think?"

DS goes to this school because it is a good school, we like their flexible attendance philosophy for reception, it's small, it's two minutes' walk away (and the only school within walking distance) and he knows almost all the children - so given that nothing's ideal, a pretty good option.

And because it's a Church-aided rather than full-on faith school, I didn't think it would be too full-on, Christianity-wise; I was told that many faiths would be learned about. But clearly one is taught as THE faith.

I want DS to know about all these beliefs and make up his own mind about what he believes: he doesn't have to believe the same as me or school. But I'm a bit uncomfortable about four-year-olds being taught that a robin's tummy is red to remind us of Jesus' blood.

Any reflections? TIA.

"I didn't think it would be too full-on, Christianity-wise"

I think most UK schools teach Christianity as the faith - after all, it's the official state religion.

DS1 is at a Cathedral school. It's independent, so we don't have to pretend to be Christian. He's 7. He knows that different people believe different things. I don't think he believes in the Christian stuff. It's fine for them to know that different people believe in different things.

I know, ExBat - am quite possibly being a bit dim this end. But truthfully, I was assured that the God bit would be pretty light - Jesus' blood's relationship with robins' bellies? For four-year-olds? Argh, I dunno.

Given that the reason for the robin's red breast is NOT to remind us of Jesus's blood and is not part of any theology, I'd say something like: 'well it isn't really red for that reason, but maybe that's why some people think of robins as Christmas birds, but I think it's because while lots of other birds fly away to warm countries in the winter, the robin stays here, even if its snowing. Which is why we put out food for him. Would you like to put out food for the robin?'

I am a complete non-believer, (call it what you like), and my son goes to a local primary school that seems to sing a lot of Christian songs and the vicar visits more than I would like. I make it very clear to him that this is what some people believe, I do not, and that he can make his own mind up as he gets older. But yes, comments like the Jesus's blood thing would be a step too far for me. What a load of rubbish!!!

However, with regards to your comment about the flexible attendance philosphy for reception, my dd starts school in January, she is a young one and at the meeting last week I asked if she could miss the odd Friday if she was too tired, (I am fairly sure she will be completely exhausted). I was told that this would be marked down as an unauthorised absence and was not allowed by the education authority. Any information you could give me about your set-up would be most useful .

my totally vocally sceptical atheist ds1 went to yr6 in a catholic school.
It is one thing him not believing, but he did need to learn about faith and to learn to respect others rights and beliefs.
Now at yr10 he works well in RE at school because he knows to be a good debater in such matters one needs to understand both sides well.
I advised ds1 to view the services and rituals as educational.
This worked well and curiously he built up a respectful relationship with the catholic Father of the local church, he still chats to him most weeks.
Has been an up and down ride for ds1 esp as RE curriculum at secondary is heavily Christian imo.
But now onto morals and ethics he is enjoying it immensely!

Firstly, ime, kids tend to be very "taken" with the whole religion thing at this age - especially if erm they haven't been been exposed to it too much at home (just wait till Easter and you'll have his drawings of crucifixes everywhere!) It will ease off when the novelty factor wears off...

The robin thing might be a bit but on the whole I personally wouldn't get into a big discussion about every little thing he is told at school. If you feel that strongly about it you should really question whether or not you should keep him there. My kids go to a faith school and whilst I personally am probably better classed as an agnostic these days, I fully intend to support the school and what it teaches them - because I chose to send them there and knew what I was letting myself in for. (But maybe a bit different in my case as the kids are baptised, etc.)

Agree entirely, NQC - as per OP. I want DS to know about the different faiths, and respect them, but to choose his own - not have one rammed down his throat at a highly impressionable age. Fool me then, for sending him to this school, although there isn't a better option locally, overall; we did wonder about this at the application stage, and figured a good school in walking distance where friends go was best, even with the God emphasis thrown in. I expect at seven, he'll be better able to take it or leave it, like your DS. I think I'll just keep going with the "this is what lots of people at school believe. Uncle X believes this (Hindu). Auntie Y believes that (Buddhist). Mummy believes Z (Humanism). Listen to what school says and when you are ready, decide for yourself" approach. Ta for posts.

I'm agnostic and dh is religious, dcs go to faith school. I've found they cope extremely well with 'daddy (teacher/ school etc) believes X, I don't believe that, I believe this...'. But you have to be crystal clear in your own mind what you actually do believe/ not believe because they will rip you to shreds otherwise with the questions. They don't like uncertainty, they can cope with different opinions.

Have never come across the robin thing though!

I use the "Ah, right, yes that's what some people believe. And other people believe different things. What do you think?" line on a very regular basis, but I think I would draw the line at robins. Or overt creationism.

Thanks, ladies. Satsuma - not many religious discussions going on here TBH, but DS brought it up, so we chatted about it in bed at silly 'o' clock this morning. I agree that it doesn't need to have a meal made out of it. Interesting what you say about fully supporting what your faith school teaches your child when you are an agnostic. I'd find that tough. I do believe in supporting DS's school, but I also believe that, just because we have chosen to send our child(ren) to a particular school, we do not have to allow the school's teachings to march 100% over our own values and beliefs. School can be a homogenising institution, so maintaining and communicating our individual beliefs and ideas to our kids is important, IMHO. Will brace myself for the Easter crucifixes!

mabanana - thanks for reminder to top up bird feeders.

Helennn - interesting that your LEA has said that your daughter missing a day would be noted as an unauthorised absence. What about if the school authorised it? Whereabouts in the UK are you? In our county, I think it's very much down to the school during the first year. A neighbouring village insists all children are in full-time after the first two weeks of the September term. Crap for many summer-born boys, IMO. DS would never have coped. Another neighbouring village has summer-borns in part-time only until after Christmas. Our school - progressive headteacher, thankfully - says it's up to the parents this year. DS does mornings only at the moment. She has said she'd like him to try a few afternoons after Easter.

I'd suggest finding out if the apparent lack of flexibility is down to your school or the LEA. It may be harder to budge the LEA, but the school might flex. Legally, your daughter doesn't have to go at all until the term after she turns five - will school hold her place until then?

Many thanks for replying frenchtoast - I know it is off subject but did not think it was an option after what the headteacher said. I now know that it is not a nationwide rule so will look into it further.

I am in Devon so must find out who to contact to ask more questions. Our head is also fairly progressive, but also likes her stats and position on the league tables me thinks! I really can't see the point in imposing the full-time rule because dd will be miserable and half asleep for half the week.

I know that I could have held her back until September but she knows she is going now, I assumed that it would be like when my son started and that she could miss the odd day if she was too tired. I wouldn't want to disappoint her now as all her friends are going!

Many thanks for your help. I shall look into it further.

frenchtoast - I'm going for the innoculation effect - give them plenty of religion now so they won't get sucked in by some cult later in life!

Tell them the religious stuff is wrong, but that some people don't know any better.

Prepare them for a life of having to make allowances for fucking loons everywhere you turn.

Explain the true facts of whatever crap they were trying to fill his head with this time "no dear the sun comes up every morning even if you don't say prayers and the lightning isn't god getting angry"

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but my son age 5 came home from COE school to his atheist parents and said the 'christmas play has Joseph and a lady who I think are in high school musical cos they sing and three men what are ugly (?) who bring presents to jesus who is a king- king of what? says dp- BABIES of course daddy - so I am less worried than I was

I find it incredible that in the 21st century there are still schools whose entrance criteria and teaching are based on the propagation of a Bronze Age myth.

I would tell him it is not an actual fact, it is more just an old story that some people like to believe. Then tell him there are lots of religions and they all have different stories and believe different things - whereas the facts about robins are things scientists agree on all over the world. then have a look at some interesting birds facts about feathers and eggs and whatnot.

But then I wouldn't ever use a faith school. I am just flabbergasted that a school, any school, a place that is supposed to teach children about reality, how things work, science etc, is allowed to have the same teachers in the same breath telling children religious beliefs that directly contradict proper scientific knowledge, as if they are fact. I just can't believe it's allowed. No wonder so many people have a poor grasp of science when they are taught such wibble at school.

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Yes I've been gradually becoming more aware of that, from MN mainly. God I'm going to be primary school's worst Dawkinsesque nightmare aren't I?

I know DS will come across it, I'm all in favour of learning about religion of course, and even though I'm a rabid atheist i'm happy for him to make his own choice. It is the teaching it as fact that does my nut in. But OTOH, it was rammed down my throat and I survived I suppose.

Steiner though... I think not Even Christianity preferable to that I think.

I don't know anyone - Christian or otherwise - who believes that about robins. I suspect most of my Christian friends would be a little about that ...

Piffle, I think your approach is a very sensible and tolerant one. Seems to me would lead to a very well-balanced and openminded DS who could think for himself and come to his own conclusions.

Some of the other approaches suggested on here are outrageous. For example, I would be equally appalled if a teacher followed Onager's exdample and said that "the religious stuff is wrong, but that some people don't know any better" and that religious people are "fucking loons".

NQC - not so re: 'most schools teaching Christianity as the faith'. My son's primary school is non-denominational and they do not teach any religion whatsoever. Thank God. Or maybe, 'thank rational thought and science'

I would freak if my child started prattling on about Jesus's blood, quite frankly.

My dds go to a non-religious community primary, they still get a fair amount of Christianity shoved at them. I'm not overjoyed by it but I think it is a bit easier in a school which is officially not religious, the parents tend to be not very keen, as a group, on religion so there is some pressure to keep it low key.

Mine are singing something called "Hosanna Rock" in church next week, they are also friendly with the local curate "Jeremy" who visits school and invites them to Sunday School. I just counteract with the Dawkinesque alternative views at home, rather robustly. It's irritating but I don't mind a bit of theological debate so we manage OK.

DS1 who is 5 goes to a full on CofE school because it is a good school and the only one in walking distance. He went through a God phase in Reception which I half-ignored while trying to answer his questions along the lines of 'some people believe that...' and also bought him the childrens' bible he requested. Now he is in Year 1 and the novelty has worn off mostly. We only read one chapter of the bible stories before he lost interest come to think of it...I shall have to dig it out and force him to read it to get value!