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Original poster

Help! Ds's teacher has told ds we are "pushing him too hard" and "may be confused" re 11+ whaaaat?

121 replies

WideWebWitch · 02/07/2008 19:16

Ds is ten, will be 11 in October. The 11+ is this October. I have posted before about not being sure whether he's lazy or not that bright, since he doesn't appear to try very hard when we have given him home tuition / 11+ tests and so it's hard to tell. So I went to see his teacher last night as I thought he might have a better idea and asked:

do you think he's got a chance of passing?
do you think he's bright enough to be ok if he gets in or am I doing him a disservice giving him tuition and trying to help him pass?
is there anything else the teacher thinks I should be doing?
I explained that I have bribed ds and he gets stuff if he passes

The teacher said first of all he was double booked so would have to make it quick, then said he 'would like to see him pass' but that ds lacks concentration sometimes and can be slapdash. I know this. He fails to read questions etc and doesn't answer properly because he hasn't read the Q properly.

To clarify, home tuition meant an 11+ tutor for 9 sessions only last year to teach him how to do the 11+ tests, since then he's had no tuition until recently (a month ago ish) when we've been asking him to do 10 minutes of test questions every night. Also:

He doesn't have to do them at the weekend
He only gets about half an hour homework a week.
He does no afterschool activities.
He is allowed to laze about a lot at weekends.

We're not pushy parents imo.

ANYWAY, ds came home tonight and said the teacher would like to see me at parents' evening next week as he's concerned we're 'pushing him too hard'. Teacher also said he thinks we may have misunderstood and that 11+ shouldn't be revised for.

Btw, our choices for secondary are:

pass 11+, lovely school
alternative school, rubbish, in special measures
another lovely school but we pay, £880 a month

We could pay but I don't want to have to JUST BECAUSE DS IS LAZY! I don't mind if he doesn't pass if he genuinely tries his best, (I really don't) I just can't bear it to cost me and ex dh £60k or whatever in fees over the next x years because ds CAN'T BE ARSED now, which I think is fair enough.

I already work my fingers to the bone, commute 4.5 hours a day and was looking forward to not paying nursery fees of £800 a month from Sept when dd goes to school.

Wise words much appreciated. I'm tempted to drop teacher an email tonight saying "just to let you know, we're not pushing him hard! It's 10 mins a night! And no tuition since last November!"

Feel v anxious about tihs. TIA for any advice.

You're all going to tell me to wait and see what he says aren't you? I am also concerned that he#s telling ds he needs a break. Because that's not the message we're giving him.

OP posts:

cornsilk · 02/07/2008 19:18

Why on earth did he pass that message on through your son? If he is lazy that's the perfect excuse for him to do bugger all!

Original poster

WideWebWitch · 02/07/2008 19:20

AbSOLUTELY Cornsilk! Fair enough to say he wants to see us...

OP posts:

morocco · 02/07/2008 19:22

wait and see

I wonder if ds has embellished the message?

btw, 11+ can definitely be revised for. I'd wonder about a teacher who said it wouldn't make a difference

cornsilk · 02/07/2008 19:25

10 mins of tests a night isn't that much surely? I think it's a bit weird that he's sent a message home like that. Do you think your ds could be pulling the wool over his eyes?

AbbeyA · 02/07/2008 19:41

It seems an odd message- are you sure that your DS isn't getting uptight about it and has mentioned your anxiety to the teacher who has told him that he will speak to you?

Piffle · 02/07/2008 19:47

be wary about tuition, you can coach a genuinely "not at all bright" child to pass if you get enough coaching. Ds1s class has one boy who is so behind and failing it is heartbreaking.
but if you are certain your ds can achieve and the teacher definitely seems to concur then perhaps engage a tutor and ask them to be nothing but honest.
Is your son aware of the options? Maybe if he knows you can pay for the other school he thinks no effort required?
you need to ask him to be honest as well.
desperately hard to decide what to do for best when other option is not a great school though.

Original poster

WideWebWitch · 02/07/2008 20:40

WEeeeeell, just talked to ds and I think this got lost in translation - the teacher asked "do you think they're pushing you too hard?" which is an ENTIRELY different matter.

Piffle, that's why I asked the teacher. If ds isn't bright enough to get in I'll drop it genuinely, but I have no idea since I'm not his teacher and I don#t get the best out of him (au contraire, he spent an HOUR tantruming like a baby about doing a ten minute test last Friday, reduced me to tears).

OP posts:

Original poster

WideWebWitch · 02/07/2008 20:43

AbbeyA, he is worried, we just had a chat and a cuddle in bed about it. I have said (again, have said it many times before) that I want him to be happy and that I don't mind if he doesn't pass AS LONG AS HE DOES HIS BEST.
What I don't want to do is have to pay JUST because he is being a lazy git. Morrocco, well, his tutor says yes it can be revised for too. It has been embellished, I feel sure. Ds's teacher is a really nice chap actually, can't imagine him saying "your parents are horrible pushy types" or anything of the kind.

OP posts:

edamdepompadour · 02/07/2008 20:45

I don't have any answers, WWW, but I feel for you. You've made me very glad I don't live in an 11+ area!

(did you check those dates, btw?)

seeker · 02/07/2008 20:47

The 11+ can be revised for. I would say that very few children would pass without a bit of practice. BUT there is research (can't remember where from) that proves that after a certain amount of revising performance doesn't improve any more. So some time spent practicing the question types is fine (your 10 minutes a night sounds fine). Any more doesn't help and may be counter productive.

nkf · 02/07/2008 20:48

I think that it helps if a child wants the 11+ school and perhaps he doesn't. They're quite smart enough at that stage to fail deliberately.

Or maybe he senses that you want it and he's scared he might fail.

I wouldn't bothere asking the teacher if he's currently at a state school. He won't know the levels expected and how to achieve them.

moopdaloop · 02/07/2008 20:48

But isn't the ability to work half the battle and if he doesn't have that then he's not likely going to get it, even if he's bright, there's little point in trying to make him.

I have to say it sounds to me as though you are pushing him. If this exam is not to be revised for and you're making him do tests nightly, even just for 10 mins, that sounds pushy to me. But what do I know we don't have selective schools here

edamdepompadour · 02/07/2008 20:50

Um, nkf, the state primary does presumably know all about the 11+, since that's how secondary places are allocated. This isn't Common Entrance, it's just an area that never got rid of the 11+.

nkf · 02/07/2008 20:52

Okay. Sorry. In my area there are only a few selectives and the state school teachers know little about that system.

Original poster

WideWebWitch · 02/07/2008 20:54

Have emailed you Edam, thanks!

OP posts:

seeker · 02/07/2008 20:59

www - have you had a look at this website? There's lots of useful information - but you have to avoid the hysterical uber-parents comparing children and "worrying' that little Tarquin only got 99% and they are SOOO worried he'll fail!

Original poster

WideWebWitch · 02/07/2008 20:59

Thanks Seeker. He had NO idea how to do these type of questions before the tutor and the tests. There are definitely techniques and if you know them you can do the questions and if you'd never been shown them then you would just flounder I'd imagine.

The teacher does know about them because all pupils at the state school take the 11+ but nkf, I think he probably IS scared of failing, you might have a point there.

He's seen the grammar and really liked it and wants to go there so there's almost certainly something in what you say. Maybe I do need to bang on a bit more about not minding AS LONG AS HE TRIES HIS BEST. That really and truly is what I feel. I want him to be happy, I don't want to stress him out, there aren't many things I put my foot down about (eg he didn't want to do any after school clubs, haven't forced it, found it hard to learn to ride a bike, haven't forced it, haven't even MADE him learn to swim yet) but this does have quite an impact this exam.

And if he's just not trying I don't know what to do. Mopdaloop, what would you suggest? (genuine question!)

OP posts:

Remotew · 02/07/2008 21:01

It sounds like you are doing everything you can. I would definitley put him in for the 11+ as there is a lot of money at stake. He may get in but try to back off a little on the pressure.

So glad we only had fairly good comps in this area. It must be a pain this grammar/private/sink comp problem.

Original poster

WideWebWitch · 02/07/2008 21:01

And just worked it out, it's £63k over six years it will cost us at fee paying school! That's out of net income. I so so want to avoid it.

OP posts:

clam · 02/07/2008 21:01

It doesn't sound to me as though you're being unduly pushy. And anyway, even if you are, a bit of pushing now sounds like what he needs. Besides, it's not the crime of the century to give your kids a kick up the backside academically. If your son is basically bright but lazy, it sounds as if a grammar school environment would be better for him if he's more likely to be surrounded by bright, motivated kids. So, it's worth the effort at this stage, if he's in with a chance.
Be aware, though,that there are a number of teachers who love to brand parents as pushy, despite scant evidence. After all, what does this one know about your home life? It's not his child, or his bank balance either. You know your son, and I think you should trust your gut feeling here, and try to ignore the prospect of being thought pushy. I'm sure I read somewhere that being coached can make a difference of up to about 6 marks (but don't quote me), but those marks could be vital. I wouldn't recommend coaching a child who was way off being "11+ material." Anyone who starts with a Y3 child, for instance, probably is doing their child a disservice, because if they need that much coaching, then I would say they're not cut out for a grammar school. But it doesn't sound like that's the case here.
Can you get your son independently assessed by a tutor in the field? They would be able to give you a good idea of whether it's worth the stretch.

Original poster

WideWebWitch · 02/07/2008 21:06

Clam, thank you for those kind words. Y'know, I know irl I can come across as assertive and pushy and maybe the teacher has decided that of me based on meeting me v briefly 3 times. My immediate reaction today was to ask dh to make sure he comes since he's calm and reasonable sounding and will make it clear that we're not pushy, just trying to give him the best chance.

The tutor he had for 9 sessions last years said he's bright enough but needs to make more effort: there was one test where ds just ticked random boxes because he couldn't be arsed.

That's what I can't stand, the thought that it could cost me £60k+ because he decides, for a brief period in his eleventh year, to be a lazy swine!

If he's not bright enough, fair enough!

OP posts:

Original poster

WideWebWitch · 02/07/2008 21:08

Although I don't know why asking the questions I asked, arranging some tuition and doing a poxy 10 minutes a day work should be construed as 'pushy'. But there you go

Doing nothing it aint, I'll concede that.

OP posts:

moopdaloop · 02/07/2008 21:10

I don't know if it would work but could you give him the option of doing the 10 minutes or not and just try to take the pressure off.

Leave it there for him to do, without supervision. Allow him to make the choice for himself (maybe with gentle reminders once or twice)

don't panic if he doesn't do it for a few days maybe even a week?

moopdaloop · 02/07/2008 21:11

can you now help me with advice on my screeching my chidren to sleep thread?

JudgeNutmeg · 02/07/2008 21:12

Does he not have to pass the 11+ to get into the independent school?

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