Help! Ds's teacher has told ds we are "pushing him too hard" and "may be confused" re 11+ whaaaat?

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Ds is ten, will be 11 in October. The 11+ is this October. I have posted before about not being sure whether he's lazy or not that bright, since he doesn't appear to try very hard when we have given him home tuition / 11+ tests and so it's hard to tell. So I went to see his teacher last night as I thought he might have a better idea and asked:

• do you think he's got a chance of passing?
• do you think he's bright enough to be ok if he gets in or am I doing him a disservice giving him tuition and trying to help him pass?
• is there anything else the teacher thinks I should be doing?
• I explained that I have bribed ds and he gets stuff if he passes

The teacher said first of all he was double booked so would have to make it quick, then said he 'would like to see him pass' but that ds lacks concentration sometimes and can be slapdash. I know this. He fails to read questions etc and doesn't answer properly because he hasn't read the Q properly.

To clarify, home tuition meant an 11+ tutor for 9 sessions only last year to teach him how to do the 11+ tests, since then he's had no tuition until recently (a month ago ish) when we've been asking him to do 10 minutes of test questions every night. Also:

• He doesn't have to do them at the weekend
• He only gets about half an hour homework a week.
• He does no afterschool activities.
• He is allowed to laze about a lot at weekends.

We're not pushy parents imo.

ANYWAY, ds came home tonight and said the teacher would like to see me at parents' evening next week as he's concerned we're 'pushing him too hard'. Teacher also said he thinks we may have misunderstood and that 11+ shouldn't be revised for.

Btw, our choices for secondary are:

• pass 11+, lovely school
• alternative school, rubbish, in special measures
• another lovely school but we pay, £880 a month

We could pay but I don't want to have to JUST BECAUSE DS IS LAZY! I don't mind if he doesn't pass if he genuinely tries his best, (I really don't) I just can't bear it to cost me and ex dh £60k or whatever in fees over the next x years because ds CAN'T BE ARSED now, which I think is fair enough.

I already work my fingers to the bone, commute 4.5 hours a day and was looking forward to not paying nursery fees of £800 a month from Sept when dd goes to school.

Wise words much appreciated. I'm tempted to drop teacher an email tonight saying "just to let you know, we're not pushing him hard! It's 10 mins a night! And no tuition since last November!"

Feel v anxious about tihs. TIA for any advice.

You're all going to tell me to wait and see what he says aren't you? I am also concerned that he#s telling ds he needs a break. Because that's not the message we're giving him.

I'm sorry, I pressed 'post' to soon.

I meant to ask what was the other schools entrance criteria, do they have a different form of entrance test or would they put him in their year five to sit the 11+ a year later.

Good idea moop, I might try that. He responds well ish, sometimes, to the 'soft no' - eg, "no, you absolutely cannot have ice cream now and if you go and get it yourself the consequence will be xyz so it's your choice" said very calmly while walking away so you never know, that could work.

Judge, no, the 11+ is for a v good state grammar, the independent school has an exam with a 50% pass mark AND we'd have to pay. Most people pass I gather!

WWw, what clam said, I think.

You could get a brief assessment from a private Ed psych, which would give you an idea of his IQ. WE did this for dd1 (tho' for other reasons as well because she was being a pita at primary school). For us the stakes were particularly high, because all the alternative non-selective schools had a first-preference criterion.

Your child, your shout. FWIW, if my ds (also potentially a lazy little swine, but possibly slightly more compliant than yours) had ticked random boxes in a test I'd come down on him like a ton of horse poo.

Maybe spelling out to him all the nice things you could do for him with the extra dosh you'll save if he passes?

I second what clam says - a bright slacker does need a well-timed, loving shove in the right direction.
He is the apple of your ex-dh's family's eye isn't he? Could they come on board with this? Would telling grandma that her princeling will not get the best possible education for his future needs if he doesn't make a bit of an effort now, pay dividends?
I have to say it sounds to me like this year's form teacher is an 11 plus sceptic. IMO it is fine for him to have this view, plenty share it, but he should not be trying to sway individual decisions at either child or parent level.
Provided you are not horsewhipping the boy - which we all know you are not, the teacher should be supporting you as a family to get the right secondary transfer options in place for your ds.
I would wait and see what transpires at your next meeting with the teacher but I would also revisit the tutor and see if he could be doing more to ensure your son understands WHY it's in his own interests to keep as many options open as possible.
Have you investigated what his closest friends are likely to be doing? This is already an issue for ds, just going into Yr 5 next term. Some children will soft-pedal if it means they might get to stay with their best friend - a very understandable impulse

There is another useful site..... google 11+ forum and pick your county.
Look, your DS is not 6, whereby I would say that it's more important for him to be out on his bike in the fresh air than practising verbal reasoning. He's 11, and not receiving much homework at the moment, so 10 minutes a night is not going to kill him. If he kicks off, then do a deal by making it every other night, with a reward if he does it with good grace.
BTW, if you're in Kent, I heard that they're bringing forward the date of the exam this year, so it's technically the 10+, not 11+!

WWW isn't, but we are clam (NW Kent and adjacent LB). Ds will sit the whole bally lot aged 10 years and 4 months
Very big plus is that all local children will know how they have fared before they apply to the selective schools in the borough

Thanks Frogs, I think Clam makes a lot of sense (or is it just that she's telling me what I want to hear? Eeek!) yes, the random ticking made me, the tutor and dh cross.

Marina, YES, ex dh doesn't seem to get it although having said that, I did ask him to buy a Dslite with word coach on it to improve ds's vocabulary and he bought one BUT put other games on it fgs. Dh took them off again, pronto. Actually, ex dh's sister is just the person to approach I think, she has a degree and has just completed her masters and has just the right approach. Ex MIL will help too if I tell her a bit more.
Oh god, yes, almost ALL his friends are going to the crappy special measures school, oh bugger, bet that's an anti-motivator too.

The bribes are mobile phone of his choice, ipod nano and £300 (to be spent under my control and care and agreement). That little lot is a LOT less than £60k+

The tutor is supposed to be coming back in September, maybe I'll see if he can fit in one session in the holidays just to tell me where he thinks ds is compared to when he tutored him briefly last year.

Your son might well be proving lazy at 10/11, but that's surely what the 11+ winkles out.

I would far rather a self-motivated, bright kid from a poor family passed, then a middle-class kid whose parents can afford extra tuition, etc.

Send him to the sink school. He might learn a bit more there.

Agree with batters - everyone does seem to have tuition, which puts your child at a disadvantage if he doesn't.
And, by the way, I'm not sure that the teacher saying "do you feel your parents are pushing you?" is that much better than "they are pushing you." Agree with Marina on that one. He sounds a sceptic.
I also reckon that his teacher could, if he chose, make a difference to DS's attitude. Often they will do stuff the teacher suggests that they wouldn't touch for their parents. It'd be nice to have him on board....

x posted, thanks Batters, I have told him that other children get loads more work but gosh, it just didn'#t seem to sink in, how odd, and 10yos are usually so receptive to everything we say as parents aren#t they? har de bloody har.

Marina, if they're younger I think they get some extra points to even it up if it's any consolation. Ds is one of the older ones so def doesn't get any dispensation/points or anything.

Do you know what Desiderata, I don't think I will but thank you for the suggestion!

Locally (you know where I am) the accepted opinion seems to be that you need coaching to do the 11+ as the exams are different, so you need practice for the style of exam.

Maybe I'll see if dh can get the teacher on board. He's a young bloke (teacher not dh although...!) Yes, if Mr x isn't encouraging him then ds won't make an effort. ALTHOUGH he did sit six of them down including ds and say "you could all get level 5s in your SATS if you try so go for it". OK, I will try to get teacher on board. I do think he's been a good teacher.

He definitely could be doing more work and children are very canny at knowing that you do not want them to be totally stressed out. He is obviously a long way from that state and you should turn up the heat. No pain no gain etc when it comes to 11+. It is working the system but £880 is a lot of money and I would have no qualms about giving him a much needed push. Nothing to do with the teacher and his conversation with your son borders on the unprofessional imo.

JJ, how nice to see you. I think if you have no teaching on how to do the questions you will generally struggle.

The teacher is never going to coach pupils for the 11+, he will be too busy and is more focused on the all important level 5s.

Good points bamboostalks, just read your post out to dh who said Yes, he agreed.

No I didn't mean get teacher to coach, I meant get teacher to encourage ds just to do his best, eg stop being lazy about it.

Specific tutoring is what your son needs, there is a knack to the papers and it is intense period but if he is able then it is worth it in the end. Few children are that self motivated.

But it isn't an unhelpful comment, either.

The issue has been raised, by ds's teacher, that WWW is a 'pushy parent.'

Might that actually be true? Because it would be helpful to get to the bottom of exactly why WWW's son does not feel like performing.