How important are GCSE results for Russell Group engineering or geography applications?

[Dangermouse100]

Could anyone advise me how important GCSEs are for uni applications?

We would be looking at engineering/mech eng/aerospace or geography/env science. Ideally russell group.

Grades are 3 x 8s/3 x 7s and 4 x 6s at high ranking grammar school.

Just starting year 12 so no predictions for A Level.

If I'm totally honest my ex uni which is not Russell group but a top uni and does some of the courses you mention I don't think you would get in with those GCSEs. My old course is now requiring all As and A*s at A level so I I would assume atleast 7s. I understand year 12 has exams in May and A level predictions will be based on those. You need 8/9 in maths and physics to succeed at engineering at uni?

what are your thoughts OP?

Thank you for your reply. For reference the 8s are in maths, physics and business.

can I ask which uni this is please?

B@th

Apparently some unis just look at your top 6-8 GCSE results..

Firstly, don’t aim at RG above all else. There are many excellent universities that are not in it, and equally not all will offer a course or uni experience you want.

Some non RG unis that may be excellent for engineering include Bath, Loughborough, Lancaster, St Andrews, Strathclyde, Brunel. RG is so big now that there are certainly anomalies.

Some unis and some courses take account of GCSEs. Courses include vet and medicine so not relevant here; unis include yes Bath and Oxford, Cambs, LSE for some courses and maybe others.

Most would be totally fine with those grades. They are not dissimilar from ds2’s grades and DD’s and both got offers from unis like Leeds, Warwick, Brum, Nottingham, Sheffield. If Bath is of interest (and it’s a great uni for engineering) then by all means contact the admissions team and ask. Your ds, not you. They will be happy to help.

But yes those grades are fine overall as long as Oxford/med is not in the table.

What A levels? I assume maths, physics geog? If no FM then I would ask unis about that as well, as in how many engineers have it.

I think you will be fine for Russell group. They do seem to have high A level requirements now though. Many things AAA or AAB. Tougher than it used to be.

My son got offered for 4 of the 5 he applied to - all Russell group for aerospace engineering with 8s in maths and 4 science and one more 8, some 7s a couple of 6s and a 5 in English language. He resat the English language in year 12 and got a 7.

I don’t think it matters much A level predictions more important. He accepted the easiest offer, was originally AAB (Birmingham) but said if he put it too they would accept AAC or ABB. He did maths physics and chemistry. No further maths. Leeds offered A*AA Bristol offered AAA but for mechanical and Nottingham offered AAA. Edinburgh didn’t offer but he applied for chemical (they don’t do aerospace).

I amended my post and now it’s not quite right haha! St A is not in the RG and is a great uni but not known for engineering, which is what I said (but not what I meant).

I agree A levels are key tbh, probably looking at offers of AAB-AstarAA depending on which uni.

The only time on here I have seen GCSE's being the decider for a Uni was an unusually low for him B for Maths at A Level and in clearance they wanted to check he had an 8 or 9 at GCSE, which he had. (He may not have been taking Maths but I do remember the B meant they went back to check GCSE grade). I think it is more likely if they are doing a direct subject (eg Maths Degree or Geography) if they do have a bit of a fumble on A' Level for that subject.

Most RG are now A*-A with perhaps the odd B in a few courses.

You’ll be fine - 8s are great. I do UCAS with students. A-Level results are going to be more important and RG unis are more selective (expect A*AA at most RG at A-Level. Oxbridge may consider GCSE slightly more but honestly? I would encourage more work experience and extracurriculars, and evidence of being a well rounded, keen student to improve chances. MOOCs, leisure courses, reading books, watching lectures etc etc. I will say (as I say to students) RG unis aren’t the be all end all either. But I wouldn’t be concerned

Thank you all

@clary Your post is very helpful. Can I ask what courses your dc applied for? dd is doing maths, physics and geography

@MeridaBrave Thank you for sharing your experience. Can ask if any extracurriculars were noted on the UCAS statement, if so please could you share what they were. I’ve no idea where to start on this! The lower entry grades you mentioned what were these based on please?

@Kroovy Thank you that’s all really useful info. Can I ask what MOOCs are ? Dd has various hobbies but nothing specific to engineering/aerospace or geography. … except for loving F1 but I don’t think that would really count…. Although that combined with the fact she enjoys Physics has led her towards aerospace! Just hope Physics A Level is still manageable as I’ve heard it’s one of the hardest ones.

Firstly I am so so sorry @Dangermouse100 I thought you had said a DS but I see you didn't specify, and in fact are talking about DD. Please accept my apologies for what feels to me like an assumption. The more women that do engineering, the better for sure.

So to answer someone else's point, extra curriculars (sports, DofE, music) are not really relevant for uni applications. The PS is a place to talk about why you want to do that course and what has inspired you. Hobbies that will give you a social life at uni are great for sure tho, so don't give them up. What will help on your PS is talking about courses, reading, online things relating to the subject.

I see looking at engineering in a few unis that AstarAA is a very common typical offer but as a PP's DC was offered a lot lower, maybe in practice that flexes.

DD applied for Eng lit and a couple of other related courses and got offers of AAA-ABB from places like Warwick and Brum. She ended up at Uni of Leicester which was great (not RG). DS2 applied for biology/biosciences and got offers of AAB-ABB from places like Leeds and Sheffield. And Lboro where he actually went (not RG! hence me beating the drum for non RG unis haha).

He didn’t do much. A couple of days work experience, he did some scouts youth camp type stuff (not engineering). Lower entry was based on Birmingham being firm choice. He’s very happy there.

Bristol take the top 8 gcse grades into account as part of the overall application. Well they do for maths anyway, not 100% sure if it’s the same for all subjects

My sister who is on the arts side was v keen on RG unis but I think for engineering the good unis are a slightly different set. I would suggest; Bristol,.Bath, B'ham, Manchester, Newcastle, Loughborough, Sheffield, Herriot Watt, Stirling, Imperial etc.

If I had one tip it would be to get work experience. Even if she doesn't enjoy it she will find out what she wouldn't like to do. I tried electronic, mechanical, the navy and an aeronautical company and much preferred the latter.

Bath and Bristol use GCSEs in their decision making process for mechanical and aerospace engineering.

Bath weights it 50%. My YP has 4x9s, 3x8s and 2x7s and admissions said this is below what the majority of successful applicants from the last few years have. They only give a 20% weighting to predicted grades.

Bristol weights 20% on GCSEs so strong predicted grades can counterbalance a bit.

At Oxbridge they will look at your GCSEs in the context of your school. So if you got results lower than the rest of your cohort then this will go against you.

For all other universities they mostly go on predicted grades and personal statement.

Interesting - do they check against the school you were at when you sat GCSEs, or the school you ended up at for A-Levels?

My DD was one of the best at her school for GCSEs but where she is now, she'd likely be middle of the road as it's far more academic. I'm not sure if she's thinking of Oxbridge for university but it would be nice to know 🙂

@RatherBeOnVacation that's very interesting. Bath rates GCSEs higher than Oxford (which anecdotally expects higher GCSE grades overall than Cambs) in that case, which is surprising. Not in any way disputing what you say tho! But 999988877 are fabulous grades after all. A friend of DS's got into Cambs with a grade 6 (not in the subject they studied); I've heard that Oxford wants 8 grades of 7+.

@clary Here’s the link for Bath admissions. It is specific to certain courses but I would always check admissions requirements on the individual university website, not just UCAS, as there’s no indication of this at all on there. I emailed Bath admissions to check my YPs grades and the replied with the “lower than” comment.

https://www.bath.ac.uk/corporate-information/admissions-for-a-level-students-for-mechanical-engineering/

@AtomHeartMotherOfGod I believe it’s where you sat them. Her GCSE results would be compared to her old school cohort. A-level predictions would be compared to her new place.

In previous years the strongest applicants in this area have had GCSEs of mostly 9 or A* grades.

Wowser. Tho tbf that's just the strongest applicants and not necessarily all the ones they made offers to. I have always said Bath is a great uni (for specific subjects anyway). Certainly gives the lie to "RG at all costs". There must be some of the very best students in the country there.

(Edited to correct bolding)

Yes - Bath has one of the highest entry requirements for mech eng - there are only a handful that ask for AstarAstarA (eg Oxbridge, imperial, Bath, maybe Manchester?). Mostly the offer is AstarAA for the highest ranked engineering unis.

@clary St Andrews for Engineering? Er not really. Why go all that way and pay for the extra year?

Depending on predictions - look at Southampton, Sheffield and Bristol for all Engineering degrees. Engineering is in the dna of these unis. Plenty more offer a variety of excellent engineering courses and many ex polys are very good too. There’s also places like Surrey and Newcastle which should not be discounted. Liverpool and Manchester too.

I would not wish Brunel on my worst enemy! Who wants to be in Uxbridge?

Env science? Be careful. It is far too geared to not for profit work and it’s not easy to get a job in it. If you do, pay is usually less than engineering. Family member with a first from a RG could not get anything. It’s too narrow - geography is far better as there’s a wider choice of careers.

If interested in the environment, there’s far better opportunities for civil engineers who specialise in environmental engineering. I’d do this over mechanical eng or aeronautical engineering. Plenty of unis offer civils but look for env engineering modules. Nottingham could be a good shout. There is work in this field because it’s finding engineering solutions. A much better choice than env science.

DC should take maths, Physics and Geography for civil engineering and try for MEng if possible.

The GCSEs are fine! Many unis are not wanting A stars. Bath do because they are popular and can ask for high grades. That is by no means universal and courses wanting lower grades turn out very employable engineers.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner I corrected myself in a later post. I originally was mentioning excellent non RG unis then added in engineering and omitted to take out St A which I agree is not an engineering choice.

St Andrews doesn’t have an engineering course or even department 😂