Options after being denied place at nearest secular primary school - home ed or attend faith school against our wishes?

[Outdoorsmammy]

not sure if anyone can help as it’s quite niche but looking for any advice. We live in a fairly low population area and generally everyone here gets their first choice of primary school regardless of catchment area (I’ve never met someone who hasn’t). We put the school my son already attends preschool at as our first choice but unfortunately he just missed out on the last spot to our neighbour. The school were as shocked as we were and advised us to appeal which we have but I don’t have high hopes. This school is the second closest school to us but also the nearest secular school. Pretty much every other school near us is a faith school (including the one he’s been offered a place at) but we feel very strongly about him having a secular education. We did have faith schools as our other choices but only because it was so unlikely that we would be faced with this issue that I definitely downplayed it. I feel very stupid about that now and wish I’d just listed every non-faith school within a 20mile radius. I have contacted a couple other schools that are further away than we would have liked just to see but they are full for September.
I know children can be removed from collective worship in school which was originally my backup plan but the school he’s been offered a place at seems to involve religion in everything which makes me very uncomfortable.
If the appeal is unsuccessful then I feel like my only option is to defer his start date and hope a place comes up at some point. I don’t mind the idea of home ed except that I’m also expecting another baby in late Sept/early Oct AND also have a 2 year old who’s only in part-time childcare so it would be a lot.
I believe children can legally stay at preschool until the term after they’re 5 but I’m worried this wouldn’t be fair on him as he’ll see all his friends move up to reception.
looking for stories of people managing to get places at secular schools when originally denied, or being forced to attend faith schools against their wishes and finding it ok, or ideas for doing home ed with other small children in tow.

thanks :D

My kids go to a catholic primary school (we are not catholic), and there is a huge range of people there, of all faiths and none. They do have to learn about some aspects of the catholic faith but it certainly isn't the whole curriculum.

I think home education is a great option if you think you can offer a better education at home and have the time to do so. I would have loved to home school my children but I do not think I would have been able to give them the opportunities they get at school and also we would have had to become a single income household which would have been tight.

Don’t know what to advise as we couldn’t afford home Ed but would have been livid at having to go to a faith school, but I wish all the people who say “why did you choose a faith school if you’re an atheist?” would read these threads and educate themselves about the fact that for many thousands of parents there is NO choice!

Sorry you find yourself in this position - it shouldn’t be a thing in the 21st century 😢

That would really annoy me too however, have you been to see the one you’ve been offered, just that faith schools vary a lot in how in your face religious they are. I visit schools as part of my job and as a very rough guide, a voluntary controlled CE school, you’d barely realise it’s a faith school, followed by voluntary aided CE then Catholic. Also you can ask what percentage of children are that faith, if it’s small then the daily religious aspects might be minimal.

Thanks - yes we have been to see it and it’s a nice school but it is catholic so yes it is extremely religious. Even the c of e schools around here are quite ‘in your face’ (we looked round several) but I am currently madly trying to explore options and find one that is less so

Are you in Ireland by any chance? Just as your username says "mammy"!

I am Irish myself (living in England), and Irish Catholic schools I think tend to be more hard-core.

Thank you - you’re right it absolutely should not be a thing in an increasingly secular society. What’s worse is I discovered the other day that if a faith school is oversubscribed they are allowed to prioritise applicants by faith, whereas a secular school is NOT allowed to do that. They cannot prioritise someone who has specifically requested secular education but must do it by distance.

There are no secular schools in England (if that's where you are). All state primaries do prayer and some will be really very religious, depending on the Head Teacher. At least with a religious school you have more idea of what you are getting and can opt out of prayer.

What an awful situation! DH and I are atheists. Having lived for most of my life in big towns/cities with plenty of non-denominational schools I was amazed to find, when we moved to a rural area, what a stranglehold the C of E has on rural primary schools in England. I don’t think most people realise. There is no non-religious school in walking distance so we had to settle for the local C of E one. I became a parent governor and was then horrified to discover what power our local diocese has in determining the school's long-term plans.

Having said that, I do think it is a good school in many ways, but I still dislike the religious parts. We don’t make a fuss about it but just tell our children that some people believe those things, just like some people believe fairies and dragons are real, but in our family we don’t.

I don’t see how you could possibly home-school well with a toddler and new baby too. I think if I were you I would accept the place, hope your appeal goes well (though tbh it will probably not look good that you listed some faith schools as choices, though I understand why you did) and see how it goes. Get on the waiting list for a place (someone might leave the school) and if one arises you will have to decide whether or not to move your DC.

Good luck!

Edited to add: I now see that the school where your DC has been offered a place is Catholic. I don’t think I could cope with that. Was that school on your list of choices?

I feel for you OP, what a situation! I’ve never had to home ed, but the advantage in your situation is not having to take a toddler and a new baby on the school run every day. Of course the cons are that all three would be with you most of the time. Reception is mostly play though there’s the social aspect. If you could see yourself doing this, put your eldest’s name on the waiting list for the school you thought they’d get into. Worst case, the 2yo gets a place and your older one moves up the waiting list as sibling!
I had 3 under 5, different situation as we moved schools but my youngest got a reception place as a foster child moved areas (😥), eldest moved to top of list as sibling and got a place, no place for middle child but top of list, a family moved schools with short notice and suddenly on the last day of summer term all three were set to move there in Autumn.
Good luck OP.

Yes this isn’t lost on me, very unfair.

I don’t think it would have helped had you listed all the non faith schools in a large area. You wouldn’t have got a place on distance.

Are you on the waiting list for the school you listed first and for other non faith schools that are closer?

I can see why you would be thinking about home schooling, but with the younger child and a newborn in September, it’s a lot to ask.

I’m not in England and I’m very old so my opinion may not be useful, but I was educated at a c of e school but raised by very atheist parents and I have always credited that with my highly developed critical thinking skills. I would come home and say I’ve learned x today, and my parents would gently question me to get me to consider alternative positions. It worked very well.

DS went to a C of E school, I didn't think it was a big deal it was just the nearest school. Had quite a shock when in Yr one his folder of work included him tracing the words 'I am a Christian'. They also had these local church women (not sure of their role but not actual vicars) telling them stories from the bible as if they were fact and trying to fill their heads with all sorts of nonsense. DS was a complete cynic though, very logical, I struggled to get him to believe in Father Christmas at 3 so they had no chance.

All schools should be secular it's appalling that they're not IMO. Teaching about religion is fine but teaching them as if it's fact and they belong to it is not.

The school he’s currently at pre-school at is secular. There are a couple others a bit further away so they definitely exist.

This is my mums opinion as I also went to a C of E school and her argument is I ‘turned out fine’. I still think we should be allowed to choose though.

Secular schools have to provide the same RE as the church schools, same responsibilities for daily "worship" etc.

When is your child 5? You could defer until later in the year to allow time for waiting lists.

I have been a primary school teacher for 15 years in England and never once have we had any form of prayer. Possibly when we do Christmas carol service or something, but I cannot recall ever doing it.

That's missing @Seagulldancing's point, which is that even schools with no religious affiliation can be religious - even more than a Catholic or CofE school. My primary was 'secular' but then a head came who was born again and went on about it no end, very happy clappy assemblies and much religious fervour.

So it's not as simple as secular schools and religious ones, your DC will come across it sooner or later and the better thing is to help them navigate it and make their own decisions. They won't be indoctrinated with you as parents giving a wider perspective, not dissing/dismissing religion but encouraging them to think critically for themselves. I'd be more concerned with whether it's a good school in other ways, are the kids safe and happy and learning well? If so, then I'd reserve judgement, give it a go and keep an eye. I doubt that the religion impacts absolutely everything and suspect lots of kids will not be religious either.

Is the school you want 1 form entry? Does it often have movement? If it's likely they will have a space at some point before he is CSA I would home educate in the short term. If it's not a school where there is often children leaving then unfortunately it would probably be the best of the two situations to go with the closer c of e school.

I can understand your frustration though.

Nope, north-east England! I have no other catholic school to compare it to but it’s def more hard-core than the c of e ones, though I was surprised by how religious even those seemed to be

Thanks. There are lots of military children at this school so yes there is movement (and this formed a huge part of our appeal). So this is definitely an option we are considering, though the new baby does make even short term home ed more complicated

I have sympathy for your feelings about faith schools, I grew up Catholic and didnt want that for my kids. Your son is very little though, if he goes into the faith school and you go on the waiting list for the secular school, given your location he’s bound to get in in the next couple of years. Honestly he won’t remember!

If you're first on the waiting list for the school you wanted you may not be waiting very long. There was lots of movement in all of my DCs' primary schools, including in Year R. I would probably start him at the nearest school with a place so he gets used to being in a classroom, phonics etc and then move him when offered a place.

That's a hopeful position. It might even be that you manage to get a space if a family leave before September. I would keep on top of your position on the waiting list I'm imagining you're at the top at present but that could also possibly change if someone moved closer.

Fingers crossed any home ed would be very short term before a place is available.

Thanks - I understand it massively depends on head teacher but they also said that all state schools do prayer, which is not the case. The one he’s currently at certainly does not. It is also a good school and he’s very happy there.
our parents have said the same thing as you, that we are overthinking the religious side - but I think 4 years old is very young to have conversations about why they are teaching him things in school that we don’t practise at home