Options after being denied place at nearest secular primary school - home ed or attend faith school against our wishes?

[Outdoorsmammy]

not sure if anyone can help as it’s quite niche but looking for any advice. We live in a fairly low population area and generally everyone here gets their first choice of primary school regardless of catchment area (I’ve never met someone who hasn’t). We put the school my son already attends preschool at as our first choice but unfortunately he just missed out on the last spot to our neighbour. The school were as shocked as we were and advised us to appeal which we have but I don’t have high hopes. This school is the second closest school to us but also the nearest secular school. Pretty much every other school near us is a faith school (including the one he’s been offered a place at) but we feel very strongly about him having a secular education. We did have faith schools as our other choices but only because it was so unlikely that we would be faced with this issue that I definitely downplayed it. I feel very stupid about that now and wish I’d just listed every non-faith school within a 20mile radius. I have contacted a couple other schools that are further away than we would have liked just to see but they are full for September.
I know children can be removed from collective worship in school which was originally my backup plan but the school he’s been offered a place at seems to involve religion in everything which makes me very uncomfortable.
If the appeal is unsuccessful then I feel like my only option is to defer his start date and hope a place comes up at some point. I don’t mind the idea of home ed except that I’m also expecting another baby in late Sept/early Oct AND also have a 2 year old who’s only in part-time childcare so it would be a lot.
I believe children can legally stay at preschool until the term after they’re 5 but I’m worried this wouldn’t be fair on him as he’ll see all his friends move up to reception.
looking for stories of people managing to get places at secular schools when originally denied, or being forced to attend faith schools against their wishes and finding it ok, or ideas for doing home ed with other small children in tow.

thanks :D

Yes it’s odd - reception is full but all others are significantly under. Just our luck!

Haha I love this! Very reassuring thank you

Thanks - it’s hard as we now feel we’ve confused him by having to move him away from the school and friends he loves and start over (we’re also military so this may happen again a couple times during his school career)
can totally see why the language thing would sway you though - I absolutely love that more people in Ireland are embracing their native language again 💚

No, obviously. But offered school has no car park. School run involves parking elsewhere and walking through town, something I was totally prepared to do with x1 younger sibling and will be prepared to do with x2 later. But not with toddler + newborn + not being able to drive after c-section. As I'm sure you’re aware, paternity leave in this country is crap so I’m not sure who is supposed to drive my son to school while I am recovering. We have no family to help. Hence why the one on my husbands way to work (and much closer to home, and with its own car park) would make life so much easier 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️
(application was made before I was pregnant so wasn’t an issue then)

I'm as atheist as they come but there's no doubt the faith schools are the best ones.

If you want the best for your child then you'll have to bite the bullet. Not a good idea to sacrifice their education for your intolerance.

I made the same mistake as you but worse… we put the nearby Catholic school first, as the facilities are incredible, we didn’t think we’d get in not being religious, and everyone told us it wasn’t actually that religious. It really is. Everything is linked to Jesus. The priest is always at the school. It’s a very religious place.

We’ve been offered a place at a nearby but less convenient and less well funded primary school now but 4yo has done all his settling in sessions and has friends going there…

It’s such a tough decision.

That’s really helpful thank you

British military. I feel like anyone moving would likely know by now but we remain hopeful!

I know what you’re trying to say - as many faith schools do have a fantastic reputation but our first choice is also an incredible school and much more convenient for us location-wise, better SEN provision, etc etc. we know many other families in our community who’ve got children there and couldn’t fault it. I wouldn’t send my kids to a bad secular school over a good faith one, but I didn’t have to make that choice.

Ah no! That’s so hard, I don’t envy you that decision either. Thanks for your insight though - I will bear it in mind. I think what I need to do is go in and have a very frank conversation with the headmistress or reception teacher about it

I agree that you should be allowed to choose by faith or no faith equally but being presented by the options you have been given obviously stick out and appeal for the secular school . Failing that state clearly that you know that it is your legal right that your child must not be indoctrinated in anyway and arrange a meeting to that effect. You are entitled to that just the same as if you were from some unusual religion . You cannot legally be discriminated against for you faith or lack of faith . You have the right for your child to opt out of RE and acts of worship. Also science must be taught neutrally and not through a religious lens .
. Your child cannot be forced to pray and cannot be discriminated against for these choices . Hopefully when all that is clear they will accomodate a change of school !

Ds went to a CofE primary, by year 5 he was an ardent atheist! I really wouldn’t worry! You can always HE later if you feel the school isn’t working out.

I strongly feel that all schools should be secular, however there wasn’t a reasonable non-church option for us so kids are at c of e

if it’s any comfort they have not turned into Christians and know we don’t believe that. Although in reception and year one they were told a lot of religion as truth and I did have to point out that we don’t believe those things. I think it did cause some mental conflict for them but in the end the home belief system has dominated.

there are a lot of non Christian kids in our school, I think it must be so othering for (say) Muslim children to have Christianity presented as the norm.

I don't envy you. But pps are correct in saying that the religious character of the school is down to the head teacher as much as the label. My DS went to a non-denominational primary school that changed drastically when a new HT took over, and gave staff free rein to promote Christian doctrine as literal historical truth if they wanted to. There seemed to be some kind of clergy in at least once a week.
I sent DD to a C of E school, purely because it was the closest, and they only seemed to wheel out the crosses when a church inspection was coming up.
Neither school produced a crop of new Christians.
Hopefully there will be movement at your preferred school by the start of the school year.

@LondonStock "Do not, under any circumstances, homeschool. The ages between 4-7 are absolutely crucial for social development and it’s really not healthy to isolate children. That won’t be your intention of course, but with 3 under 5 you’ll be lucky to make it out of the house some days, especially in bad weather, never mind home educate your eldest."
Respectfully, I suggest you refrain from speaking about subjects in which clearly you dont really know what you are talking about. Because none of what you've said in that paragraph Ive quoted above is true.

All English schools are required, by law, to provide a daily session of 'Collective Worship' and Religious Education following a curriculum approved by the local SACRE.
I'm afraid that I do not believe that there is a Primary school in existence that hasn't prayed in 15 yrs. The very fact that they have a Carol Service shows that they are not secular.

My children went to a c of e school and they became very devout Christians in year R and were ferociously atheist by the time they left . We respected their beliefs and either way

I wouldn't over think it .

I've taught in too many schools to count and can assure you many have no prayers or carol services.

What do you mean by ‘hard core’?

Just as a matter of interest does anyone know what is the actual situation with stepping out of assembly ?
This used to be normal when I went to school.
A few would not attend assembly so did not take part in prayers and hymns.
It was a daily short religious service with a few announcements led by the headmaster.
This was in Junior school.
When I recently asked a local Vicar who took occasional assemblies in a church school how many pupils opted out there was a frosty atmosphere.
I was told that parents had chosen that school and everyone joined in everything.
This puzzled me.
I was wondering what if the pupil did not want to take part in worship.
Even if parents had selected that school.
Are they entitled to step out.?
Or must it be the parents decision.?
The implication from the Vicar was that that would never happen as parents had agreed to go along with everything at that school.
It was hard to get into so they had to actively assert their wish for a Christian ethos.
I may not have expressed this query properly.
The Vicar seemed to take umbrage at the mere suggestion that some may not attend assembly.
So I couldn't ask further.

We were in a similar experience 12 years ago @Outdoorsmammy. My DC did go to a VA CoE primary school because it was the only one reasonably locally that had before and after school club provision, which we needed. I gritted my teeth and got on with it.

As it turned out, the DC (now nearly 15 and nearly 18) for not become at all religious. There were a couple of phase of religion- curious, but nothing more than wanting to know more about anything else academically. As I see it, they learnt about religion, but it was compartmentalised to school. It was never a thing “we” did. I wasn’t going to fool myself that they would never find out about religions, but that’s not to say we had to change our mindset as a family.

DS watched the Muslim kids leaving assembly at primary and just got up and joined them one day. No-one ever said a thing! It was years before I learnt he'd decided to opt himself out!

As in, including religion in class as well as just assembly. Crosses/bible based books etc in all classrooms

Thank you - that is reassuring. I think that is one of my main concerns - how to gently and respectfully have conversations with him where I explain that we do not believe the same things as the school. I also don’t want him to feel left out in any way if I ask for him to be removed from collective worship. Probably I just need to have an open and frank conversation with the school about this asap before I make any decisions

It would allow your child to hear a different point of view and make up their own mind (if you would allow them to). Is that such a bad thing?