Would your primary school treat these threats and assaults as violence?

[Lambaandlettuce]

in your primary school is this deemed violence?

we have a just turned 10 year old child in my child’s class whose behaviour is digusting.

We have taken our eldest child out of school this week for their own safety after this pupil threatened to kill them simply because they didn’t want to play tag. We were told by a member of staff this morning the pupil was in school today despite what happened on Thursday. Staff member also said to me I should start considering formal complaints as the head will never consider excluding this child regardless of the number and escalation of incidents. Head has said today that the behaviour is communication and is being managed in line with their policy.

putting arms around neck to strangle other child
punching
saying I hate you and I’ll get you dead
ripping up school art work
bullying every day saying you are weak, you are a pussy, your are just scared of me, I’ll knock yer face off
yanking off play equipment from height and causing huge egg lump bruise on head
using threatening language in school

to staff and in class
hitting TA and pushing her resulting in injury and weeks off work
so disruptive children can’t renewer classroom and have to be taught outside
putting hands around throat of class teacher
climbing on top of windows tables and throwing scissors

They are ten - if school aren’t doing anything following a written complaint that has been escalated to governors, report to LADO and I’d consider police.

Sorry, late to the party, glad you have the police involved

@MyOtherCarIsAPorsche DC are excluded from primary schools. Heads won’t face up to their responsibility to make sure other dc are safe. Neither do governors. This is a relatively modern problem although I did see schools exclude dc permanently when I was working (after significant input and angst) there are primary prus! The Sen lobby is so large and noisy now, heads are too scared to act so let down the majority. Look at the extract from the newsletter I posted. It’s all about understanding the Sen child. Their needs outweigh everything else. And yes, it’s going to get a lot worse! Special schools are the only way.

Years ago my budget was flexible (as an education officer) and I paid for extra help to go into schools where lots turned up not potty trained or violent and no statement (as it used to be). It was temp help and saw a school through a crisis. Often it was extra ta time. Now, all the money I had is devolved to schools. It’s abundantly clear that schools cannot afford the high level of time needed to accommodate these dc. Even with a EGCP it’s a huge challenge if Dc is violent. Heads should ensure all dc are safe though and that’s their first priority on my view and they need to grow a backbone.

Complain to the governors. Your child is too scared to go to school.

I think your last paragraph explains a lot. There is little enough provision for violent children at the Secondary stage. Provision for violent children at the Primary stage is practically non existent.

I only know three children who were given special school places in primary because of their unpredictable and extreme behaviour. One was still in infants, in the special school she was given 1to1 teaching in a separate room because she was the youngest in the school by about four or five years, and at the time the only girl, it was not ideal . The others who were junior age were given places but immediately moved to another authority and managed to get themselves enrolled in other schools before their school records caught up with them, but not before issues had already been raised. Their parents lied through their teeth at the admission interviews.

There was a whole group of boys like this in my dd class. My child has SEN and I was basically told all Sen support goes to the disruptive lods my child would get no help. Yes they are aware of the behaviour however they don’t have enough staff in the room and the layout of the room meant lots happening that no adult can see.

what I find infuriating is my son can exibit challenging behaviour but because he has a diagnosis the schools and the LA get away with saying schools cannot meet need and deny him a school place. But children who are just horrible bullies can’t be excluded based on ‘need’.

I now home educate

@MeetMeOnTheCorner

yes. It will only get worse.

I'm a retired y6 teacher - I understand the changes the government are making with regards to SEN.

Meanwhile my DGD is not safe - back in September when the class teacher asked the class to be mindful of the fact that DGD has a permanent port (for IV antibiotics) this child targeted her and would deliberately punch her on the side where the port is sited, sometimes directly on the port.

Also as a result of his constant distractions the teacher (her fourth this year) feels it necessary to raise their voice frequently which results in them shouting at the class which is awful as it is magnified through her baha hearing aid by the microphone that the teacher wears, which is distressing.

Said child swings other children around by their hoods, collars, sleeves, hair - the result is keeping the victims in at break times and not the perpetrator.

Several children have had dislocated joints as a result of being swung around.

after being swung, the children are slammed against objects and body slammed by this child which often winds the victim - after this happened to my DGD, my daughter got a phone call from the school asking her to 'come and pick up your hysterical daughter'. Why isn't the perpetrator sent home?

parents complaining of violence and disruption are are asked not to do so in the school newsletter as the school are 'aware of the problems'. The head teacher is chastising the parent for 'daring' to complain.

this situation is not fair for anyone - apart from the perpetrator who is allowed to create mayhem, ruin careers, and prevent learning from happening.

Apologies if this has already been said in an update. But how big is the bully? If you think your child is stronger than him I’d be telling them to fight back. give the little brat a taste of his own medicine
(I was the tiny kid in school so completely get this isn’t always an option)

@Lambaandlettuce Do not, under any circumstances, take the advice of @Latinglow No one in their right mind advises dc to fight! We want less violence, not more. Plus the dc with no Sen will be excluded! Really bad advice.

If someone was threatening to kill my child and putting their hands around their neck trying to strangle them, I would not be telling them to turn the other cheek. I wouldn’t put up with another adult doing that to me so why should a child?
Anyway I haven’t read this thread past the first post so I’m sure theres a fat sob story like mummy and daddy divorcing which means it’s alright for Timmy to strangle other kids and even the teacher

Oh and throwing scissors could permanently blind a child! Fuck that little bastards sob story! I’d be having words with the useless parents at the least. School sounds useless

Reading all of this, who on earth would ever want to be a teacher let alone a Senco or head?

The schools are caught between a rock and a hard place if they have lots of difficult children.

I am not suggesting that anyone is wrong for protecting their child, but this demonstrates how the DfE and Ofsted has totally messed up education in this country.

@Latinglow Do not be so ridiculous. You cannot teach dc to fight. They invariably will be the worst off and it’s appalling. The adults should be dealing with this child and clearly exclusion is what’s needed. Ofsted and the DofE have nothing to do with it except that they expect all dc to be safe! Parents could initiate an inspection. The governors could!

DfE and Ofsted have everything to do with it. Schools are basically forced to have violent children in school. Too many exclusions and you’ll fail your Ofsted.

it does seem that in the OP’s case exclusions should be happening.

Sometimes a bully just needs to be put in their place by a peer. Nobody is getting expelled because they fought back against a child that was strangling them or throwing scissors at them and saying they were going to kill them. It’s called self defence. At the moment a good child is missing out on their education because of a brat who still gets to go into school every day and throw scissors around.

A child throwing scissors around is not one I want my child to fight. They may not be excluded but they could be maimed.

As I said, i was the smallest kid in my class at school so I understand fighting back isn’t always possible. But if the ops son is bigger than the bully shoving the little brat down when he’s mid strangle attempt is a good option.

This is what I don’t understand. You fail ofsted for excluding violent agressive children because‘they’re entitled to an education”. But ofsted don’t care about the pupils not getting an education because of being assaulted at school?
so basically, if you want access to education, “put up. Shut up, you don’t matter”?

@Boggyjo Too many exclusions! There has not been one! Primary schools can exclude. Not all the time but they absolutely can to keep other dc safe. It’s not an extreme position to exclude 1 child. Ofsted would expect all effort has been made to keep and educate dc in school but the safety of others, when strategies haven’t worked, becomes more important. Hundreds of primary dc are excluded each year, and it’s not schools excluding 5 at one go.

This is the current Ofsted guidance. Note the penultimate point.

Children absolutely do get permanently excluded in juniors. Also in SEN schools. Any child in any placement can be excluded.

I wouldn't be encouraging my kids to fight. I have a lot of experience with SEN and when your having a meltdown there is total lack of control and fight or flight mode. It would be extremely dangerous. It's not like a normal bully getting a reality shock.

My 14 year old ds was attacked at his SEN school last week. A pupil said he was going to stab him with a pencil. They have the mental age of around a year one child at 6 foot. The absolute best thing was to run and let the staff deal with his attacker. Plus my son knows Karate. Honestly if he really in that situation he knows some pretty lethal moves.

It’s very common for SEN parents to want their child to go to a small school but in my opinion this is often the worst decision. Small schools are not good for SEN: they don’t have the space or resources, schools are quickly overwhelmed as there is less opportunity for ‘dilution’ of behaviour by moving the child around (to give classmates and staff a break), less likely for there to be a dedicated SENCO, fewer pupils so less chance of them finding a friend and parents can be ostracised.

My DD was like this in year 2 (maybe not to quite the same extent) as her SEN became apparent and she had constant meltdowns due to being completely unsupported (to be fair she coped with the more play based learning in earlier years so school were a bit blindsided). After a few incidents she was suspended. Yes it was awful at the time, but actually it was the best thing that could have happened as it got flagged up to someone at the local authority that actually they might want to pull their fingers out their arse and do something before she got expelled and they had to find a (far more expensive) provision for her. She now has a 1 to 1 and is doing much better, and is generally liked in the class, although it is becoming clear she'll need specialist provision for high school.

Disgusting
Im sorry to say these little shits ruining our childrens freedom to enjoy school is pandered around inclusive of this type of lunatic kid.
I hate it.
The poor child
Ring them demand action asap

@PinkCatCushion Schools must have a SENDCO. However in a small school, this could be the head! Might not be but in larger primaries the SENDCO will teach too. I totally agree that small schools are often the worst placed to deal with violent dc. Parents of send dc love the idea of the family setting and that this will help dc. Some dc of course will thrive, but others simply cannot be supported.