My 16 year old just failed maths resit, and has ONE gcse. Talk me down from the ledge.

[Interpink]

He doesn’t seem even slightly bothered. He said he knew he was going to fail it again. He’s doing a level 2 course at college and the accepted him on the basis of 3s at GCSE but want 4 in maths and English for the level 3 course which starts in September. He has another shot at it in June but that will also be in conjunction with English.

What’s driving me insane is that he’s fresh out of fucks to give and wants to get a full time retail job. But of course there’s no chance of that at the moment without Maths and English. He’s not particularly committed to his college course.

What are some realistic options? He’s nicely spoken and well presented, but has ASD (bit PDA) and dyslexia and reckons he can’t remember “stuff” apart from gaming stuff.

Help. Help help.

Thank you that’s very useful and what I thought so I will get the scripts to try and identify with her teacher what to concentrate on in the next retake .

I teach resit students. It's fundentally a flawed government plan. As the saying goes you can lead a horse to water. The success rate of resit maths and English is dire 20% ISH and that factors in the adults who retake. Mcdonalds Will take on with no qualifications it might be better he gets a job. If he doesn't want to learn, no amount of teaching will work. My students can do it in the lesson but because they have absolutely no interest it's forgotten the next time they do it. Obviously this isn't all my students, I've had better luck with the ones allowed to do functional skills. He will hopefully get to the point where he knows what he wants and if he needs maths and English he will be motivated to pass. There's online companies that you can pay to do functional skills so if the time comes he could do that or free at night school. (The Nov resit gets really bad results as the kids have not done maths since may/June. They only had 5/6 weeks of lessons then the exam. )

Unlikely to be offered FS with 3s at gcse unless sitting as an adult. Not sure retailers would take him without those gcses either although maybe a year of working would give him more motvation.

DD failed all her GCSEs. She worked hard but has various processing quirks that mean written exams don't reflect her abilities. She managed to pass Functional Skills English with one to one tuition (she nearly passed GCSE English, only a couple of marks off).

She is excelling at her Level 3 vocational course at College.

Still has to retake GCSE maths endlessly, which is a waste of her time and tax payers money. She goes through the motions. Normally I would be telling her she should do her best and put the effort in, but this is such a ridiculous system I don't. She spent 12 years working hard in a system that set her up.to fail, she's done her best, she doesn't need to bang her head against a brick wall any more.

OP, stop spending money and time on this. You can't force it. If he's working reasonably hard at College then support and encourage that. If he enjoyed the autonomy of the jam business encourage him to find similar.

Maybe voluntary work?

I agree he needs to be doing something constructive, but take a broad view of 'constructive'.

The King's Trust have a 12 week personal development programme, but it's full time so wouldn't fit with College. Have a look at their website.

He doesn't fit in the system, take the bits that work for him and ignore the rest.

Someone I know very similar makes very good money as a gardener. No qualifications, has worked in retail but always lost the job as not good with authority. Now thriving with the autonomy to run his own business and not have to answer to anyone! Very much hands on hard worker! Obviously not the time yet for your son but he might thrive doing something hands on, just needs to find what interests him and for sure kids it’s not going to be an English GCSE (even though that’s very frustrating!)

I failed Arithmetic (was actually referred to as remedial back in the day!)… and went on to have a 40 year career in finance. He’ll find his way.

I don’t think the actual maths is the point.

I do think people need a work ethic and falling asleep in an online lesson your mother has paid for is unacceptable.

He doesn’t need to love maths, but he does need to understand, by 16, that work matters and life won’t be easy unless you find something you like and try really hard at it.

All the nice stories are great, and may happen. But I think parents can expect something in return for all they put in. Using a house as a free hotel and not even trying at school would not work for me.

I posted upthread about what the OP might dos to turn this situation around.

The maths teacher will be able to tell you if they think they marks are correct. A lot of teachers will also work as a examiner so will often have insight

The exams officer can do it straight away as well… not like back in the day when they had to send the actual paper back

Have you considered removing his games console until he gets a job and consistently attends ?

DD couldn't engage in on line lessons. Tried and tried but just felt sleepy.

As I said, she's a hard worker. But some things make no sense to her, it's like sitting for an hour with someone speaking a language you don't understand, and being expected to attend to the meaningless sounds they produce.

She probably takes after me in that respect 😀

I have my post A-level qualifications (diploma, degree - first, Masters - distinction) through the OU. I can't concentrate in lessons, but give me the materials to work through in my own way and time and I can ace it.

Though DD will probably never ace written work. Luckily she has found a practical and vocational field where she can excel.

There’s plenty where I live that don’t ask for qualifications

I used to be a manager at Halfords - we took on students who had educational struggles - it was all about how they performed in the interview and then the practical part of the interview (where they would be given a task such as "Go and get all of the things you need for a customer to do a professional clean on their car", "What would a customer need to do an oil change?" etc - or if he has an interest in bikes for example, he could apply to work in the BikeHut.
It may be something he'd enjoy and they do give plenty of training on the job. It does mean weekend work too though - Saturday shifts were often 10 hours, but all other shifts shorter.

He can do functional maths instead!

Is he sitting Foundation or Higher? Because if you look at the grade boundaries, it’s a much lower % to pass Higher. Yes, overall trickier papers but lower pass %. Also look at sitting a different spec - IGCSE Edexcel has all calculator papers. He might find mental maths tricky?

I have an absolute hatred of the mandate for maths and English GCSE. DH has dyscalculia and would still be in education 40 years on if maths GCSE was a requirement back then. (BTW, he is now a senior manager in a civil service role)
But that is nothing we can solve.
Where are his interests, how can they be nurtured to grow? The good thing about society today is that there are many avenues open (the bad news is that the traditional framework is archaic).
I do agree that you should potentially stop throwing money at it because it cannot be fixed, or your son doesn't care about fixing it.

There are training courses for 16 years old not in education. Can he go on one of these. If he’s not interested in school he’s not going to work. Let him leave when he legally can get a job or training course.

Thanks all - in answer to the questions - Foundation Maths. And he’s begrudgingly attending college and his work experience placement so perhaps not as idle as I may have painted him.

We have had a little chat tonight and he is far more interested in getting a job so we have just done some applications for local retail jobs. Some of the hours are brutal though - the bakery wants someone in at 5am etc and we live quite rurally so that’ll be me with an anorak over my PJs driving him in, if he even got it.

I’ll look at this and talk to his old maths tutor. Thankyou

One of my other kids would love this. But the one in question wouldn’t go for it. He’s very sort of personable, and also has some weirdo ND superpowers like spotting teeny details and is a super-taster and recogniser.

I think for him Functional Skills may be more accessible (not always - very wordy and a focus on arithmetic which doesn't suit everyone. It can be terrible for dyslexics, which is unhelpful given so many kids with SpLD are funnelled down that route).

If he has a PDA profile for autism, the more he's pushed and more pressure is put on him the less he'll be able to do it. I really do think PDA is hugely more disabling than some more obviously so presentations of autism, because it involves so much self-sabotage even when the person wants to do something.

I know a YP who found they had an IQ of 152 in the Wechsler test and wasn't able to engage with any learning at all for days, despite being academically that gifted and loving the subjects - the outcome at that level itself was a demand. It caused the most intense anxiety and associated avoidance. Whether they will be able to achieve their goal of studying at one of the oldest most famous universities, God only knows. They want to, quite desperately. But PDA controls them and the anxiety any demand causes is colossal.

It's a really complex and tricky area. You can't shame, coerce, demand or set hard deadlines unless the PDA allows for that to be possible, and as that's also a moving target... it's really hard, OP. I send a massive hug.

@Interpink I have 2 sons (27 and 21) who have no GCSEs both are in good jobs. I thought it was the end of the world at the time but honestly it really wasn't. The eldest suffered a brain injury and was left with terrible executive functioning. His memory is appalling he does however have brilliant mental math skills, loves tiny details and lines and is very easy going and likeable. He is a roofer.

The younger one is in IT tech support. He doesn't have the same issues as his brother just couldn't be bothered at school and his marks were taken from coursework during COVID. He got some work experience in a country park and that helped to bulk his CV

Your son will find something that he enjoys and will excel once he does. The angst you're feeling will now will also disappear.

Another parent of a demand avoidant autistic teen and this has made me laugh so much

RIGHT TURN!
yeah… later…

🤣🤣🤣

Why on earth would you push him down an academic route he clearly isn't remotely interested in?

Is he aware of any other options? Like, he could earn £60k driving heavy plant vehicles and get the qualifications free through the government bootcamp being run with Flannery Plant Hire. My mate did this at 50yo with no experience whatsoever. Got made redundant back end of last year and is now fully qualified and working on HS2 without having spent a penny.

Sadly a lot of graduates/office workers are clueless about non-professional jobs and try and pressure their kids into academia, which can end up with them instead working in Mcdonalds when there was actually a middle option that was well paid but not so focused on academic qualifications.

Meanwhile, average trade salary is £10k higher than average graduate salary and young tradesmen get on the property ladder three years earlier on average (and don't have any student loan to pay off).

Im not pushing him down an academic route - far from it! But the bloody government and as a knock on, most employers want maths and English and I’ve been dragging him over the line on that basis alone.

And even to get on a level 3 course (for a trade) they want maths and English! I’m not stupid!

Everyone knows people who flunked school and went on to do great things, Richard Branson etc etc but I have to deal with what’s in front of me which is a lovely but daft teenager who hasn’t got any oomph.

Thankyou that’s very encouraging. His processing is absolutely slower than it should be and that isn’t easy to deal with.