Complaint against school

[tubsters]

Posting with a name change to protect my child’s identity. Has anyone had experience with a Level 3 complaint panel hearing at a school?

My 12-year-old son, who has never really been in trouble before, was given what I feel were punitive and degrading punishments. For example, he was made to sit alone on a bench in the yard for about an hour, as all the other children walked past knowing he’d been excluded from a trip – a clear act of public humiliation.

He was also called into a meeting with the Head and three other teachers, where he was pressured to end every sentence with “sir.” He was clearly nervous, and this only heightened the power imbalance and distress he felt. he is usually very polite and would always use ‘sir ‘ in normal circumstances

I accept that children need discipline and have always supported teachers, but the way this was handled felt oppressive and unnecessary, especially for a child who posed no danger and was already anxious.

The Head has denied much of this, so I escalated it to the governors and it’s now going to a panel hearing. I feel quite daunted about going up against the school, but I strongly believe this needs to be addressed for my son’s sake and for other children in the future.

If anyone has been through a panel hearing and can share their experience or advice, I’d be really grateful.

The Curious Case of Timmy Tubsters and the Wooden Bench - coming to Netflix soon.

Op, I hope you are able to sort this out.

Please empower your son. So many children do not realise that can actually refuse certain things, like being made to sit on a bench in full view of everyone, as a punishment.

He admitted to a misdemeanor, was not allowed to go on a trip. As long as he was polite and not bolshie about it he was within his rights to quietly refuse the public humiliation, to go into the classroom or locker room - or go home.

Yeah, the powerful lesson of entitlement. That and avoiding responsibility for your own poor choices.

Because the kid didn't like it.

@ThriveAT There's no indication that this kid is a habitual nuisance. No prior problems in 9 years suggests that he has a healthy respect for his teachers and the rules of the school. Neither he or the OP are trying to say that he didn't misbehave in this instance, so they're no trying to avoid anything. But the way it was dealt with was out of line, and he doesn't deserve to be treated badly by adults.

You don't have to just blindly take every punishment given out. Sometimes they're not OK. I think it's really important for you to know that.

That's what punishments for poor behaviour are supposed to be, if the 'kid' liked it then it would hardly be a punishment! What should a punishment be, a trip to McDs, a new computer game, afternoon tea at the Ritz?

@JudgeJ Not sure you have got the whole gist of the complaint. It’s about how a school conducts an interview and whether that was reasonable or not. Did it meet school guidelines? Was the behaviour policy followed? It’s not about what the child didn’t like. It’s about behaviour policy and following it.

@tubsters how did you get on with your complaints meeting?

The punishment in this instance was not being allowed to go on the school trip.

The humiliation is being forced to sit on a bench in tears while your classmates walk past you, observing you crying like you've been put in public stocks.

Missing a school trip for bad behaviour, fine if it meets the threshhold for disqualification, being forced to be sat while you're judged by your peers is absolutely not fine.

I agree with @TizerorFizz, though that's no surprise because always just speaks common sense.

there's something about this whole thing that just doesn't sit right with me.

sitting a child on a bench sounds nothing, but actually, it's completely humiliating because every child in the school who goes past you sees you sitting there having been punished for a crime so everybody knows that you're being punished.

were the parents phoned to tell them reasoning behind child not being allowed to participate.

It's all complicated. Sorry if I've misunderstood bits.

And once again, a meeting where teacher keeps insisting that child says 'sir'. Repeatedly Repeatedly. I'm sorry but this just doesn't sit well with me.

Does it you?

Heavy handed. If nothing else?

The problem is that quite a lot of information is missing from what the OP has posted.
Including why, if the issue happened the day before, was the DS even waiting to go on the trip.

Do you think it's possible that a child who is upset/embarrassed/justifying themselves might exaggerate about the meeting. Maybe he was reminded to say Sir but how often? Who knows.

As for not going on the trip why should teachers have to supervise a badly behaved child on a trip when they are already responsible for multiple children? Going on the trip is a privilege not a right.

The OP @tubsters won't be back. They never do. There's a whole pattern of threads about schools in the summer holiday period about shit: coulda woulda shoulda parents.

I haven't kept a spreadsheet on it, as a retired e teacher I still pay attention to the tossers.

This one has the added bonus of saying those who don't agree with her are in some way damaged or sad. Classic MN Wank Syndrome MNWS: my copyright.

@TheignT Depends what the trip is. If it’s part of the curriculum it’s not a privilege. It’s a right. Dc are not excluded from the curriculum as a punishment. An end of year jolly is different. It’s optional.

There’s an issue of parent not being informed and whether the punishment fits their behaviour and punishment policy. As a 12 year old, saying sir seems very outdated anyway. Just overbearing really. @tubsters when is the meeting?

Well the OP describes it as an evening excursion at a boarding school, to me that sounds like an end of term jolly and idc if it is a curriculum trip that she didn't mention it as she is clearly very committed to her child's education and that would be something worth complaining about.

As to be being expected to say sir the OP says it is an exclusive private school and she supports it in its enforcement of good manners so a bit much to complain about that when it is an issue for her son.

I'm not saying the child is lying but I doubt his view of what happened is 100% accurate based on 40 years HR experience of disciplinary meetings when people dont accurately remember what happened even if the meeting is recorded.

An evening could be going to see a play they are studying. My DDs have been to evening openings of art galleries for art. Boarding schools have flexibility like this. I don’t know a boarding prep that would insist on “sir” all the time and it feels like it was used to exert power.

Normal state secondaries inisit on 'sir' all the time or then say Mr x. I mean that was normal for me and my secondary years weren't that long ago and were non-selective. I mean between me and a few teachers I got along with I'd call them by their first name as a joke sometimes, but that was different. Again even in my 6th form (state, non-selective with a secondary school as well) we called our female teachers 'ma'am' which did fell strange to me at first and bit OTT but you got used to it, and occasionally I'd say miss as muscle memory. I mean it's not like you need to say it for every sentence, again Mr x is normally fine but students in lessons are constantly going 'sir'. It's actually quicker than saying their whole name a lot of the time.

Im delighted my dc went to a private school and addressed teachers and others by their names. Use of “sir” is a control device. Makes dc the inferior person as a private in the army would be. No “sir” at my old state grammar either. DH had 6th form teachers where it was first name - grammar too. These days it’s all about control and faux respect.

From what we were told, it was highly unlikely that this would have been a play they were studying as it was the end of term and he was about to leave the school. I think that the most likely scenario is that the OP's son and friend, knowing that they were banned from the trip because they were in trouble and that their parents would find out, were perhaps a little elastic with the truth of what they did and (which we don't know) and the exact nature of the punishment. Also, in the stress of the punishment and fear of what was going to be, they could easily have misremembered what happened. As the OP has not returned to the thread, we will probably never know. In any case, sometimes a child needs to be taught a lesson and I doubt this boy will repeat the behaviour that led up to the punishment.

The end of year when they are leaving the school seems a bit late to see a play they are studying. I suspect the OP would have mentioned the wasted theatre tickets but you carry on making up stories.

The OP supports the schools stand on manners so your view of when to say Sir is irrelevant, she chose a school where that is normal but now it doesn't suit her.

My DDs went to relevant theatre/art when it was on, (for study next year) but I take the point. It seems dc has 1 year of prep to go but has left the school. So 1 year in a prep elsewhere and that’s quite a significant disruption in terms of going to senior school. I’d probably have sucked it up in the circumstances.

Do you think it's possible that adults who are being called out for their heavy handed behaviour are downplaying and denying their actions?

but I doubt his view of what happened is 100% accurate based on 40 years HR experience of disciplinary meetings when people dont accurately remember what happened even if the meeting is recorded.

But the adults' version you aren't disputing. Uh huh.

I explained an example earlier. Two young staff members having issues, people taking sides. A mature member of staff I got on well with worked with them, I asked to see her and had a chat to see what f she could shed any light on it and she did, big help sorting it out and I thanked her. My assistant witnessed our chat. Later her line manager told me she had arrived back at her desk upset and said I'd given her a real bollocking. I hadn't and I had no reason to, people can get things a bit distorted if they find it a difficult situation.

Wasn't a stressful meeting for me so yes I think my view was more balanced, my assistant confirmed it. In more formal disciplinary meetings people would deny the minutes were accurate but if they listened to the tapes they'd be shocked to hear themselves. It's a human thing and no reason to be any different for an 11 year old.

I wasn't there, you weren't there, OP wasn't there. On balance at a reputable school id tend to think three adults are more likely to be accurate.

A well behaved child whose never been in trouble is going to be upset and will view it all as worse than it was