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Play date with mum who agrees with education tax

924 replies

BonnuitMy · 21/06/2025 12:41

Please let me know if I’m overreacting. I recently overheard a new mum at school talking about a local private school closing down due to the education tax and how this is somehow a good thing. She’s now invited my DD for a play date, would you accept?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
TheTealZebra · 23/06/2025 15:49

Araminta1003 · 23/06/2025 13:55

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius - obviously we are looking at other more tolerant and inclusive countries.

Hate is hate, whether it is for someone below or above you on the privilege scale, riches etc.
I could not believe the hate on Meghan Markle either, for example. It was really shocking to me. I am not some fan either. This has become a very nasty divisive society here and anyone condoning someone celebrating children having to leave their school needs to take a long hard look in the mirror.

Would love to know what the tolerant and inclusive countries are...

tortoise18 · 23/06/2025 15:54

TheTealZebra · 23/06/2025 15:49

Would love to know what the tolerant and inclusive countries are...

She's going to say Dubai and Qatar. I know she's going to say Dubai and Qatar.

In reality, the UK - however imperfect - is along with Canada about as good as it gets worldwide for tolerance and inclusivity at the moment. Not sure where else she can suggest with a straight face.

Araminta1003 · 23/06/2025 16:13

No, DS went to Switzerland where there is absolute democracy.

We are considering Austria, Denmark and Ireland, but maybe also Switzerland.

tortoise18 · 23/06/2025 16:24

Araminta1003 · 23/06/2025 16:13

No, DS went to Switzerland where there is absolute democracy.

We are considering Austria, Denmark and Ireland, but maybe also Switzerland.

Switzerland is a fair answer if you can live with the sterility. Ireland has the same problems as here, except it's still a couple of generations behind on racism (I say that as a frequent visitor with Irish family and passport). I have no direct experience of Denmark, but its reputation for tolerance has taken a battering in recent years, Austria? Yikes.

PondUnderTrees · 23/06/2025 16:35

tortoise18 · 23/06/2025 16:24

Switzerland is a fair answer if you can live with the sterility. Ireland has the same problems as here, except it's still a couple of generations behind on racism (I say that as a frequent visitor with Irish family and passport). I have no direct experience of Denmark, but its reputation for tolerance has taken a battering in recent years, Austria? Yikes.

Edited

Anyone who thinks Ireland has more than superficial similarities to the UK has clearly never lived there.

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 23/06/2025 20:23

BonnuitMy · 23/06/2025 08:59

This is simply a bigoted view of a group of children, it’s shameful.

Edited

No it isn't. Not at all.
It's Grumpy's own, true lived experience as a child.

How dare you.

strawberrybubblegum · 23/06/2025 20:26

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 23/06/2025 20:23

No it isn't. Not at all.
It's Grumpy's own, true lived experience as a child.

How dare you.

My own true, lived experience is of shameful, classist bile against private school children right here on mumsnet.

So "how very dare you" back.

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 23/06/2025 20:35

strawberrybubblegum · 23/06/2025 20:26

My own true, lived experience is of shameful, classist bile against private school children right here on mumsnet.

So "how very dare you" back.

Edited

What?
This is online! This is just a MN thread.

I was talking about someone's actual experiences over several years, at school, being bullied. Year after year, as a child.

I was also bullied at school, for being "posh" and "too clever". Relentlessly.

You cannot compare a brief MN thread to that.

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 23/06/2025 20:37

BonnuitMy · 23/06/2025 07:04

Just to remind you, you are arguing to tax the education of children and close down schools.

Just the private ones though.
🤣🤣🤣

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 23/06/2025 20:38

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats · 23/06/2025 09:07

Are you honestly suggesting that my views on private education are race related?

That is a very ugly accusation and complete and utter bollocks.

Grin
TheTealZebra · 23/06/2025 20:40

strawberrybubblegum · 23/06/2025 20:26

My own true, lived experience is of shameful, classist bile against private school children right here on mumsnet.

So "how very dare you" back.

Edited

It's heartbreaking isn't it — privately educated people suffering classist bile on Mumsnet, all while accidentally running the country, dominating the media, and gliding into top jobs... Sounds really tough.

BonnuitMy · 23/06/2025 20:47

TheTealZebra · 23/06/2025 20:40

It's heartbreaking isn't it — privately educated people suffering classist bile on Mumsnet, all while accidentally running the country, dominating the media, and gliding into top jobs... Sounds really tough.

Are the private school children accidentally running the country in the room with you right now?

OP posts:
TheaBrandt1 · 23/06/2025 20:50

The work I did as a young lawyer in the City has pretty much all been replaced by AI now.

TheaBrandt1 · 23/06/2025 20:55

Must say quite impressed with the depth of debates people seem to be having with random parents of kids friends on play dates ?! How do you ascertain who holds what views?! Don’t think I ever had a dinner party in depth religious / class based argument type conversation with a school mum on a play date collection - more where are her shoes / what teacher have you got next year level chat. Maybe it is a private school thing!

Araminta1003 · 23/06/2025 21:03

There have been a lot of very swift changes in recent years! That may be due to the fast moving technologies and Covid.

However, yes, private schools full of kids with SEND now failed by state schools and full of international kids/different races. That is the whole point. People really need to stay up to date.

The “floppy haired” pony girl bullied me is a thing of the past, largely.

Araminta1003 · 23/06/2025 21:04

And yes our Year 6 state school WhatsApp chat is also really political @TheaBrandt1 - I kid you not. I do not think it is just our school. Lots of insecurity in society these days.

Ddakji · 23/06/2025 22:06

TheaBrandt1 · 23/06/2025 20:55

Must say quite impressed with the depth of debates people seem to be having with random parents of kids friends on play dates ?! How do you ascertain who holds what views?! Don’t think I ever had a dinner party in depth religious / class based argument type conversation with a school mum on a play date collection - more where are her shoes / what teacher have you got next year level chat. Maybe it is a private school thing!

I had quite a few at DD’s primary, possibly because some parents were local councillors and also Brexit happened when she was at that school.

strawberrybubblegum · 24/06/2025 06:01

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 23/06/2025 20:35

What?
This is online! This is just a MN thread.

I was talking about someone's actual experiences over several years, at school, being bullied. Year after year, as a child.

I was also bullied at school, for being "posh" and "too clever". Relentlessly.

You cannot compare a brief MN thread to that.

Edited

Ah, so that's why you said 🤣🤣🤣 about closing down private schools.

The classist equivalent of internalised misogyny.

You should probably get some therapy for that. Instead of laughing at closing down schools or supporting a policy which is likely to turn out very expensive to the taxpayer, for no benefit other than your own nihilistic gratification.

BonnuitMy · 24/06/2025 07:58

strawberrybubblegum · 24/06/2025 06:01

Ah, so that's why you said 🤣🤣🤣 about closing down private schools.

The classist equivalent of internalised misogyny.

You should probably get some therapy for that. Instead of laughing at closing down schools or supporting a policy which is likely to turn out very expensive to the taxpayer, for no benefit other than your own nihilistic gratification.

If there are schools out there where @TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne was bullied for being too clever then we are really in a massive mess.

OP posts:
ParentOfOne · 24/06/2025 08:54

SeaDragon17 · 21/06/2025 12:47

Education tax!?! 😂😂

Christ, with that sort of language you are lucky anyone wants a play date with your kids. She might change her mind if she hears you saying it.

Private schools are businesses. Businesses pay VAT. Their charging tariffs are a business decision and being a customer is a value decision.

Thinking that choosing to not take the state option exempts the businesses you chose from tax is an odd logical leap, but trying to position it as education tax when other educational businesses who don’t have the private school loophole already pay VAT is a GB News style fallacy.

Wrong. And I say this as someone who'd never go private.

Most private schools are NOT businesses because they do not distribute profits to shareholders / partners / owners.
Just like universities.
Why are universities exempt, then?

Also, why do you think virtually no other country charges VAT on schools?
Greece tried it and it backfired massively, with many schools closing and tax revenue plummeting.
New Zealand taxes them but also gives subsidies to families who go private.
If you think that this hasn't worked anywhere else but might work in the UK, can you explain why?

Also, the revenue from this VAT is not being set aside to reinvest in state schools.

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 24/06/2025 09:19

BonnuitMy · 24/06/2025 07:58

If there are schools out there where @TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne was bullied for being too clever then we are really in a massive mess.

Don't be ridiculous.
Children frequently bully others who they perceive as being more intelligent and able than themselves.

That isn't at all unusual.

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 24/06/2025 09:23

You should probably get some therapy for that. Instead of laughing at closing down schools or supporting a policy which is likely to turn out very expensive to the taxpayer, for no benefit other than your own nihilistic gratification.

My own nihilistic gratification?
WTF?
I don't need therapy because I disapprove of money buying privilege.

Allergictoironing · 24/06/2025 09:32

If there are schools out there where @TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne was bullied for being too clever then we are really in a massive mess.

Of course there are - it's called "othering". It could be red hair or any other physical trait, it could be a disability, it could be social class in either direction (like @Grumpyoldpersonwithcats had), it could be athletic ability. Children pick on anything they can as an excuse, and it's often done as a way of feeling superior in some way.

a policy which is likely to turn out very expensive to the taxpayer

A little confused by the logic here - how? Maybe the very low numbers of children added to the state schooling system, considering that approximately 6% of children are at private school and the loss of the VAT loophole is very unlikely to mean more than about 1 in 10 of these children transfer to state schools - the seriously rich will always be able to pay anyway. So still a decent additional income to the Public purse from the tax.

Then there's the question of what do the parents do with the extra money they now have which they aren't spending on luxury education costs - well they tend to spend it on other things which is good for the economy and adds to tax take from other items.

I do seem to recall for quite a while before the current government came into power many threads on here from parents crying about how they couldn't afford private schooling for e.g. their 3rd child because of the COL crisis and how unfair it would be as the first 2 were going to private schools already, or that they wouldn't be able to afford it for their precious new born etc. Hearing about a few smaller private schools going under. VAT was obviously nothing to do with that, it was purely COL crisis.

Chances are the OP's local private school has been struggling for a while with dropping numbers and rising overheads, the VAT was just one small factor.

And I STILL can't get why this is being called an "Education Tax". I went to a private junior school then state grammar. I think the biggest differences between the private school I went to and the perfectly good state schools my friends went to was in non-education areas. Most of my school mates were daughters of high level bankers, foreign diplomats living in the area, large business directors & owners. There was a LOT of emphasis on "traditional, ladies" behaviours & occupations.

We had our own (rather small, unheated) swimming pool in the grounds. The school was housed in what had been a very large posh Victorian house. Gravelled driveway rather than tarmac/concrete. There were expectations we would have multiple uniforms e.g. everyone needed to have all 3 colours of the gingham dresses we wore in summer, and at least 2-3 of the enormously expensive winter uniform designed by the 6th form sewing class. Moved from soft straw hats in summer to hard boaters (mandatory, eye wateringly expensive, bloody uncomfortable). And the expectation that you would take extra classes like an instrument, private swimming coaching etc.

Meanwhile my friends at state school had just as good sports facilities (minus the tiny freezing swimming pool), more practical cheaper uniforms, still had the opportunity for (cheaper) private music lessons facilitated by the school, and just as good if not better education. However they didn't have etiquette and deportment lessons, and there'd been very little emphasis on things like sewing.

So going by my (limited) experiences, there was zero difference in practical education if not less at the private school due to other "skills" taking up the lesson times. So any tax on the fees there would be purely for the non-educational aspects of the school & curriculum.

Araminta1003 · 24/06/2025 09:33

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Araminta1003 · 24/06/2025 09:39

If class system really is still such a problem in this country, what other ways are there to deal with it? Genuine question.

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