Play date with mum who agrees with education tax

[BonnuitMy]

Please let me know if I’m overreacting. I recently overheard a new mum at school talking about a local private school closing down due to the education tax and how this is somehow a good thing. She’s now invited my DD for a play date, would you accept?

Once again, what is it you believe people are envious of exactly?

That should be explained by the people who welcome this policy even if it were to bring no revenue and who cannot justify it...

Comrade?

Have you even read either the IFS or Adam reports? This is fairly standard language. If you don't understand that...

Do you understand the word 'misread'?

But then you admitted that you still don't fully understand it "makes a little bit more sense"

Yes I did say that and I still think that of your post.

I do not personally think that overwhelm of the state sector is the biggest risk here. I think the biggest risk is that the just 1 million taxpayers we heavily rely on change their behaviours to the detriment of tax take, either by reducing working hours and using state education plus tutoring or by emigrating.

In any business, if you overrely on certain key workers you would never implement anything to piss them off/punish their kids. In fact, you tend to do the opposite.
It shows very much that the current Cabinet are all pretty much public sector with no real life business experience and these kinds of policy with no real positivity are a big risk to take. If there is no rationale argument to them, and their is no benefit to the state sector (which some of us were hoping would be bolstered by a Labour Government) - one really cannot expect those adversely affected to behave rationally either.
And therein lies the madness of this policy.
For those of us who are higher rate tax payers and using state education, the risk is there too, namely that state education is further eroded and that we are taxed even more.

You not understanding the analysis of the policy does explain your support of it. The Adam report linked is quite clear and easy to read.

I said your post, not the report linked. Hth.

This thread is interesting for me as our school is now closing due to the education tax. We will be sending DCs to local state as there isn’t any other viable option right now and the thought of one of our children’s new classmate’s mum laughing about what is very upsetting for children is sickening. Good on @BonnuitMy for thinking about the children and standing up to someone who is obviously small minded and spiteful. I would not let my children anywhere near someone like that. This policy is senseless,vindictive and damaging. It’s unforgivable,

Nice to see OP being a little more creative when starting yet another thread about VAT on private school fees. Makes space for the usual protagonists/AI bots to keep going on the same old topic.

@NaySaidThe - our state school has had kids come in from the private sector and it will be even more in grammar in Year 7 so do not worry about it. The vast majority of parents do not think like this at all and will be very welcoming to your DCs. I do hope you have certainty on which school they are going to now and wishing you a nice summer break. At this time of the year in state primary schools, in particular, it is often just quite fun stuff like sports week and lots of creative things that get done so may even be worth joining earlier than intended for an easy transition. All the best to your children.

Thanks, that’s good to hear. They have places now for September, but it doesn’t have the wrap around care so we can’t make current work hours work. Maybe a child minder, maybe go part time, maybe move jobs or house, maybe move abroad, move schools again ?!? Ah well we have a few months to figure it out, thank you Labour you geniuses.

Am I right in thinking your children go to a grammar school?
Those children who go to a grammar school already have a significant advantage over the vast majority of the population who go to bog-standard comps.
I’m guessing you would have sent yours to private had they not got in to grammar (as you mention you are a higher rate tax payer) rather than send them to the local secondary modern.
Otherwise I just don’t understand why you are so against the removal of the VAT exemption. Private schools are not charities, they do practically nothing for their local community. The private schools near me rent out their swimming pools to swim schools and have a couple of scholarships (but only to children who will bring benefits to the school by raising exam results). That’s it. They can’t honestly claim to be a charity.

Are you under the impression that charitable status has anything to do with charging the parents VAT on fees?

@BarnOwlFlying - most aren’t renting out facilities for a massive profit at all, more at cost to cover heating etc and cleaning. Pools are expensive to run, a lot rent out facilities that actually cost them indirectly.

And the reason I sent mine to grammar school is because it was far cheaper than moving house into a good comp. And in any event they all got music aptitude or language aptitude places in good comps as well in various parts of London.
Do you have a problem with aptitude places for talented kids in state comp as well?

My youngest is in Year 6 and is good at music. Has already passed two Grade 8 ABRSM exams with Distinction. Pretty much any school with a music aptitude test will have taken him, plus he passed grammar without extensive tutoring as well.
Some kids are just good at some stuff. Do we owe it to society to put them in schools where they are not very happy? I do not think so.
Plus I do not want my DS in some school where he is too celebrated either and thinks he is top of the top. It is better for him to go somewhere with lots of kids who are talented - will keep it more real FOR HIM.

have a couple of scholarships (but only to children who will bring benefits to the school by raising exam results)

The schools near you must be very different to most others. I don’t know a single school which offers only a couple of scholarships. Scholarships are, of course, different from bursaries. Many private schools have around 20% of pupils on bursaries. Of course the VAT policy has meant that the bursaries are increasingly being channelled into supporting existing pupils.

They can’t honestly claim to be a charity.

Many don’t. Only around half have charitable status and those that do have to meet the requirements of the Charities Commission.

I’m slightly puzzled as to why you’re mentioning charitable status alongside VAT anyway. You do realise that the two aren’t linked?

No reason why they should be making scholarships available anyway. They're already saving the taxpayer £4bn per year. That's enough public benefit.

They're turning out about 40,000 educated young people per year, who could use their skills and education to the UK's benefit. If the UK doesn't make them feel unwelcome, so that they decide to make their lives in a country which does value them.

I think they are alienating anyone with any talent at this point, for daring to be somewhat and vaguely elitist. The whole thing is completely ridiculous.

We do not qualify for substantial bursaries at top end private schools even though they would love to have a kid like my DS, I am quite sure of that. Nor do we qualify for help for specialist music schools because of our earnings. So grammar school it is for the likes of us or top state comp.

In London, there are state comps were the MPs mix and we all know which ones they are as they clearly all know each other and pick the schools accordingly. Should we ban that as well?

Maybe the most known private schools will start offering proper scholarships to the most talented kids regardless of income again? I mean what was the point of limiting it to bursary kids and giving them a chance when the payment from Central Government is to try and tax parents? Surely they will want to attract the most talented and the rich and just sod the Government going forward? What exactly is the Government doing for private schools? Nothing?

And the Government is doing sod all for grammar schools as well by the way and hence many have HAD TO resort to raising funds privately via donations and hence you now get some with excellent facilities and even opening partner schools abroad.

This country has become an anti education shit show at the expense of the next generation and it is embarrassing.

A smart society sees anyone’s success as something to be proud of that you can piggy back off. A toxic crap and finishing, end of the Roman era society, turns inwards and destroys whatever good is left. Pick one!