Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 7

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Continuation of previous threads discussing VAT on independent school fees. The thread title is a headline from a Times article last autumn.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5237575-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5242586-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5280646-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-3
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5301690-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-4
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5317397-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-5
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5337850-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-6

No one is making anyone poorer, there is a free alternative.

Thanks for the info, I didn't realise the projection had been shown to be wrong.

More children in a school means more funding for that school. It's a good thing for the school, the children in it, and the staff working there.

What are the positives of the policy?

If the government adds VAT to meat, will you be no poorer: because you could just go vegetarian?

Or will you recognise that if you continue your current behaviour, then you will be poorer. And having to accept an alternative that isn't what you would have chosen is harm.

If there is a free meat option, I'll take that.

£24.5 billion is spent on meat each year.

We should tell the government that this is an easy way to raise £5bn without anyone being any poorer!

State schools aren't free... they're taxpayer funded.

And lentils are a perfectly adequate source of protein. Just not what you want to buy and eat.

They're free at the point of use, and I'm v happy to pay tax if it means every child can be educated.

I'm very happy that lentils are a cheap, nutritious form of protein.

It still harms me if the government add a 20% tax to meat and then just flush that money down the toilet, without it even bringing any benefit to anyone.

Even if there is very good meat that is available for free? I get that it isn't the meat you would have chosen, but good meat nonetheless.

So on the one hand you’re saying the state education system is broken and in serious need of reform.

And on the other, you’re saying that “very good” state education, of apparently comparable quality to independent education, is universally available.

Which is it…?

Once again, would you be OK going vegetarian, and not feel that the government had made you poorer if they introduced 20% VAT on meat.

There are perfectly adequate, nutritious, tasty vegetarian foods you can choose from, as you know. But if you continue to buy meat - which you have been buying until now - you need to pay an extra 20% VAT, which the government will flush away with no benefit to anyone.

What about the jobs of the people who work in private schools: teachers, office staff, cleaners, catering groundsmen? Then all the associated jobs like food suppliers, plumbers and so on? The ripples are felt across a community when even a small school closes or ‘joins forces’. And even if they don’t close, the pay and conditions deteriorate as management desperately try to save money. So it doesn’t matter to YOU but the great thing about the Labour Party is that that they will probably do something that messes up your life at some point in the next few years. They might do the Labour flip-flap at some point but you’ll find the damage is done before they go into reverse.

If only state schools were actually available to every single child. They aren’t.

All kinds of policies and political decisions (made by any party or organisation, local or national) can end up with people losing jobs - increases in minimum/living wage might mean a struggling business can take on fewer people, say. Designating Liverpool as a city of culture and not Manchester means people in Liverpool have job opportunities not available in Manchester. Deciding to support the Ukrainian war effort means that (say) drone manufacturers do better than the firm making widgets for warships.

I realise that only one way of thinking is acceptable in this thread (that Labour are spiteful and vindictive idiots) and that my words will fall on barren ground, which is why I have largely given up commenting.

Save yourself, @CorneliaCupp - don’t get drawn in. There’s birds to be watched 😀

Well it’s looking dicey for Starmer and co so it could be dropped sooner rather than later.

Good stuff. Terrible policy which is for the birds too.

I reject the premise. The choice isn't meat or veg, it's meat or a different meat.

You're right!

I can't see this policy being dropped, the vast majority of the population are either in favour or don't care.

It's true, discussion is pretty pointless. You can lead a horse to water.

Hope the 'vast majority of the population' are equally in favour/don't care about the impact on the UK, including state schools, of Labour's economic mismanagement.

“The choice isn't meat or veg, it's meat or a different, rancid-crawling-with-flies and bacteria-meat.”
**
”The entire system is broken and needs a full rethink” @CorneliaCupp

Not sure why you’re so intent on flogging this rancid (according to you) meat.

It’s bizarre.

I'm simply replying to the question asked. It wasn't my analogy to begin with.

Because this policy has really helped state schools, hasn’t it? Have they even got the ‘slice and a half of white bread and a cup of orange squash’ breakfast club for every child yet or was the money diverted to some other rubbish scheme? Neither do your examples match the situation. By all means make Liverpool the City of Culture but don’t make Manchester charge more for all theatre, museum and art gallery tickets at the same time. Labour would swoop in to help some industries (good, Labour industries like steel) but deliberately damage those they see as Enemies Of The People. Your flippant comments are disrespectful to those of us who are impacted by Labour policies. It isn’t a fun game of ideological point scoring for people who need to pay the mortgage and for young children who have to move schools.

Labour are spiteful, stupid vindictive idiots. None of the other parties are any better but Labour are the spiteful, stupid, vindictive idiots who though of this cracking policy.

NB I have children in private school and am financially impacted by the policy.

My comments aren’t flippant - those are all consequences of political decisions on jobs (as a PP was complaining about lost work for janitors and grounds people)

But again: the way you respond, accusing those with a different view of being flippant, disrespectful and point scoring is why I stopped posting on these threads. Because the - what, seven of you? - want to go round in circles agreeing with each other.

I will leave you to it.

I agree. However, I think it is important to keep highlighting all of Labour’s crap decisions so we are all aware of the whole bucket of crapness they are creating. It will be general awareness of constant poor decisions and highlighting unpleasant impact of policy that brings down a Prime Minister and causes a government to collapse. No one cares unless it impacts them but Labour has upset so many people, they are in trouble. That’s not including the whole disgusting Epstein revelations.