Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 7

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Continuation of previous threads discussing VAT on independent school fees. The thread title is a headline from a Times article last autumn.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5237575-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5242586-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5280646-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-3
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5301690-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-4
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5317397-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-5
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5337850-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-6

That’s confusing, because one example of legislated-in VAT exemption on school fees, is where local authorities are not required to pay VAT on the private school fees that they sometimes cover for families if there is absolutely no other option to meet that child’s needs.

Interesting, I didn't know that, will try and look it up (or let me know if you have a handy link!)

Is it this?

https://www.affinia.co.uk/news/vat-private-school-fees/

Ther finalised legislation confirmed that where a pupil’s place in a private school is solely funded by a LA, because either the pupil’s needs cannot be fully met in the state sector, or are best met elsewhere, local authorities will be able to reclaim the VAT they are charged on such fees via Section 33 VAT Refund Scheme.

This looks like the LAs do pay the VAT, but that they can claim it back. As a mechanism, that makes more sense than a customer having an exemption from paying.

This. It’s a double whammy. Fuck the economy so we earn less in real terms and then ensure that we have to pay more to obtain the same services.

I have some friends who live abroad, and we recently caught up for an online chat and we ended up talking education etc and he was shocked to hear that the UK has imposed VAT on private education. His initial reaction was shock and said: Who in the right state of mind would want to destroy education? Why would any one want to break the one thing that will create an educated future generation and a healthy thriving economy?” And that…why would not they work on fixing the state system if it needs to be supported rather than level everyone down.
… but we all know that they want private schools to shut down because they think that by destroying private education they are destroying the conservatives who they hate with a passion. It’s all messed up. The money raised from VAT is going towards building affordable housing as Keir tweet and deleted 🤣🤣 so much supporting state schools and send children.

This sums it up well ie a map of all the countries which tax education

The ending of funding for IB in state schools really illustrates Labour attitude to education: no-one can have access to things other people don't. So now the only schools which will offer IB are independent schools.

Labour have cut all the aspirational programmes in state schools: IB, access to Latin, Advanced maths, the Eton Star academies, access to STEM etc etc . All the programmes the Tories introduced to try to improve the educational aspiration for children in deprived areas.

Then at sane time they tax the education if DC in independent schools to force them out into state schools.

It is the ideology of levelling down rather than any attempt to raise standards in state school. We said it from the start and were told we were being hyperbolic etc. Speak to any teacher in state sector now, they all say things are worse.

@twistyizzy Regarding the IB, I agree wholeheartedly and was just about to post the same thing. Removal of funding to deliver IB in state schools is absolutely levelling down. It is disgraceful.
Several reviews of British education have recommended a move away from the narrow focus and premature specialisation of A Level towards a broader baccalaureate in which 5+ subjects are studied at 16-18, i.e. basically the IB in all but name.
Destruction of IB programmes in state schools is a backward step. If, as they claimed, Labour were serious about improving state education and funnelling the money raised by VAT to improving state education, then they would be expanding IB programmes in state schools. That they are doing the opposite speaks volumes - it is educational vandalism. It sends a message that if you want a broad education with an international outlook then the only way to get it is to go to private school.
The Blair/Brown government's focus on education sent the opposite message - that if you wanted an excellent education you didn't need to send your child private. Sad to see how far Labour have fallen. Their actions on education reek of the worst form of hard-left socialism : not "to each according to their needs", but "everyone gets the same thing, and if anyone's getting anything better, we'll tear it down".

🎯

Except remember Starmer later said any money raised was going on housing

Reduction of funding is never a positive thing. Although some state schools will choose to still run the IB. They will still get the normal funding. It is the extra £2k top-up funding schools get for running the IB that is stopping, not all funding. There is a thread about it in secondary education.

Most state schools are having to make cuts though so without the extra funding the IB becomes an "unnecessary luxury" 😞

As I said, a reduction in funding is never positive. However, some state schools are choosing to still run it.

They will for the rest of the academic year I'm sure and then also to see the existing pupils through but I would be shocked if they were still running it in 2 years time.

I’m not sure why anyone would think establishments would stop mid academic year this year when the reduction of funding doesn’t start until next academic year. There are still some state schools planning to start the IB for the current Y11, so to start in 26/27 academic year and complete in the academic year 27/28, which is what the other thread is about.

Which is exactly what I said! Schools will continue this year and next year to see the pupils who are already undertaking it.

However I can't see many continuing 28/29.

This still doesn't take away the fact that it is taking away opportunity for kids in state schools and that, alongside all the other schemes which Labour have scrapped, is a part of levelling down.

In other words, they haven't outlawed it, just made it increasingly unaffordable. Meaning that schools/pupils who would otherwise have found it affordable to do will no longer be able to afford it. Numbers will go down significantly. Which is exactly what they've done with private schooling. Both are levelling down.

When you said see the existing pupils through, it made it sound like you didn’t think any more would start because in 2 years time, the current Y11s, who haven’t yet started, will still be mid IB.

I did say a reduction in funding isn’t positive.

Exactly

Yes you’re right/ sorry if I misunderstood re LAs paying VAT on private school. They pay it but get it 100% refunded as you said.
As described here in this slopy shouldered government explainer
(don’t worry folks the government says that the 20% VAT imposition doesn’t mean that fees will rise by 20%)

Such bullshit. Would be interested to know if there is any survey data on how much fees rising + VAT on education has actually cost parents since this came in.

educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2024/11/vat-private-schools-everything-you-need-to-know/

And Greece. Which makes the map worse somehow

I think the Greek gov reversed it because it was such a bad idea.
can’t find a link apart from this from The Telegraph
maybe someone on here has a share token
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/tax/greece-labour-style-attack-private-schools-backfired/#:~:text=What%20soon%20became%20clear%20was,their%20children%20to%20private%20school.

Er no, Greece scrapped it after they realised the impact on state schools. Also the EU intervened

https://www.economist.com/europe/2015/10/30/greece-reconsiders-a-tax-on-private-education More details on the Greek experience here - (you can register to read articles for free)

Subtitle: ‘The left-wing government aimed a new tax at the rich. It hit the poor instead.’

Another small, not high profile private school gone:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2d714eqwro

Note the obnoxious, minimising government quote:

‘A spokesperson for the government said that 43% of employers will pay no employer National Insurance contributions this year, and more than half will either see no change or a reduction following the changes.

It added fewer than 0.1% of pupils are expected to move schools this year as a result of tax breaks being ended for private schools, and that average fees rose by 75% in real terms between 2000 and 2025, but pupil numbers remained steady.

A HM Treasury spokesperson added: "We want to ensure all children have the best chance in life to succeed.

"Ending tax breaks on private schools will help to raise the revenue needed to fund our education priorities for next year."’