Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 7

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Continuation of previous threads discussing VAT on independent school fees. The thread title is a headline from a Times article last autumn.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5237575-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5242586-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5280646-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-3
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5301690-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-4
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5317397-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-5
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5337850-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-6

It is going to happen, Labour want to push MC kids into the under performing schools.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/08/08/middle-class-children-shut-out-best-schools-equality-drive/

just putting this here. This is starting to get funny actually

Yep Labour will keep going with or without mc parents.

I think to believe that the regular contributors (4-5) to these threads (many many threads) are actually 'concerned' parents from either private or state is a real stretch.

I can assure you I am 100% a real life concerned parent! I am also part of the largest parent group opposing the policy.

If you have suspicion then name them

Who are they? May as well stake out your claim.

I am keen to focus on the arguments, it feels a bit “look, a squirrel” with accusations about being some kind of bot (if that is what posters are being afraid of).

what are people’s thought about how much of any money of the VAT that will go to state schools? I mean, there appears to be a £51bn hole in public finances?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/aug/07/reeves-starmer-pitch-roll-tax-rises-advance-difficult-budget

I wonder if maybe putting VAT on tutors and universities will be next?

also, should they decide to limit MC children in high performing schools, that would instantly result in a much larger equaliser than any VAT on private schools would do (target more children and - without cost- enabling children from lower socioeconomic groups access to better schools.

No answer to that then?

Starmer said the money was going to housing and defence.

Here are Treasury figures on how much it will raise based on % leaving, 3% have already left so we are already down to £0.5B.

Whilst I agree that limiting MC children’s access to top-performing schools may be a more effective, and cost-free, equaliser, I am fundamentally opposed to it.

Surely a state-provided service such as education (or health - I note the Torygraph suggests that the MC could also be deprioritised for NHS services) should be equally open to anyone, it shouldn’t depend on money or jobs. I am very uncomfortable about that indeed: it shouldn’t be down to the whim of a politician to decide whether one group of people is more deserving than another when it comes to health and education.

Agree 100%. Health and education should always be free from politicians, they are too important!

Wonder how the additional, unexpected pre-payment of fees fits into this? That also reduced revenues?

and clawback of VAT by the largest schools?

I do agree, but there is no money so social engineering with regards to schools and health may be the only thing they can do?

nock on effect that house prices close to outstanding schools will be more affordable (if proximity criteria are dropped / relaxed?

Yes and the figures above never took into account VAT clawback or pre-payment.

This is why I've been banging on about this for 18 months! It brings in hardly any £, any money raised isn't going to state schoold but it DOES cause huge damage on children especially those with SEND ie forced to leave schools/schools closing.

It's a vile policy and history won't look favourably on it, or it's supporters

Well will wait to see what the socialists of London make of it when they are no longer able to buy their way into top state schools in the country!

Then Starmer, Reeves etc should lead by example and pull their kids out of top performing state schools and put them in RI ones!
But we all know we won't do that, they are happy to have privilege for their own children, they just don't want anyone else to have it!

Yes Labour’s dc would be prime for this, so they’d have to lead by example.

Do you know which schools Starmer's kids go to? I do, and they're not particularly good ones. Maybe the gap between them and the high-end London privates that his lawyer peers and neighbours' kids go to has helped inform the need to improve equality of opportunity.

Are you joking? His kids both went to primary schools which were called "prep schools for the MC". His son had tutors and got Lord Ali's flat to revise in!

House prices for the catchment of their primary school were £2M and catchment area around 172 yards!

“Maybe the gap between them and the high-end London privates that his lawyer peers and neighbours' kids go to has helped inform the need to improve equality of opportunity.”

That argument doesn’t apply to people like Starmer with their two million pound Camden house and over a million pension. They are rich enough to have had the choice of paying for that opportunity and their kids most likely get the money later on, which confers just as much privilege if not more these days (given where house prices are). So the opportunity for them was there. They don’t get to be the ones who whine about it. They have a choice. It’s people who don’t get a choice and are stuck with poorly performing state schools or those with kids with SEND who are being failed that deserve better. And where they have genuinely felt they had to choose and pay up because that was all they got offered - charging them a VAT penalty is grossly unfair.

Yes someone in a £2m house is going to be surrounded by similar. The school will benefit from that.

The same circular arguments ad infinitum…..

Governments can charge VAT on what they like. A private education is not a human right.

Private schools close and new ones open, and sometimes the private school population goes up a bit and sometimes down a bit. Mostly this is just a response to economic cycles.

It is not altruistic or good parenting to choose private, any more than it is to choose state. And, yes, parents can and will (rightly) help their children in many ways, not just schools. Middle class people s’ children will always be at an advantage.

Will it raise revenue? Probably. Will it raise significant revenue? Probably not.

But, like high rates of stamp duty, which is a truly stupid and iniquitous tax (it is basically a tax on divorce and mobility), I doubt anyone will reverse it any time soon.

They haven't been at primary school for 5+ years, and "politician lives in his constituency and sends his kids to local state primary" is not the win for your mad views that you think it is. And Eleanor Palmer (no harm naming it because it's so long since they left) is a good primary school but has absolutely nowhere near the resources of a prep, and is nowhere near as good as it was a decade+ ago before the funding cuts hit, as you would know if you had the slightest bit of local knowledge from 300 miles away.

Except more than "normal" kids have left this year/schools closed and we are already nearly at the only "raising" £0.5B vs lauded £1.5 B.

5 x number have already left this year than Labour predicted and we aren't even in the crunch year!

State schools aren't getting any of the money.

So all in all it just damages the education for some, with no benefit to others.

Very simply put, anyone who supports it can proudly claim that they support the taxation of children's education (cos education of adults is not impacted). No-one seems to want to own that though! Strange.. .

The thought of first-hand knowledge of state schools being able to inform a politician into a stance on behalf of other people, rather than themselves, clearly hasn't crossed your mind. The self-absorbtion in this thread is staggering.