Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 7

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Continuation of previous threads discussing VAT on independent school fees. The thread title is a headline from a Times article last autumn.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5237575-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5242586-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5280646-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-3
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5301690-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-4
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5317397-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-5
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5337850-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-6

Me too.
Well done those parents who could afford to pre-pay, if we could have afforded it then we would have too.
HMRC previously confirmed that they couldn't clawback anything prior to end July 24.
That they are potentially making this a priority is crazy, the resource taken will probably outweigh any bring in ££.

Just shows how much Labour got their sums wrong 🙄

So still buying advantage in your description then, just not connections or leveraging the name of the school.

“Eton said last year that they hadn't yet decided whether or not to reclaim the VAT on building works - I hope they claim every single penny of what they are due!”

They should reclaim every penny and spend it on those state schools they were planning to open in the North. Seeing that Labour are failing to invest in our state schools! Or failing to apply any of the VAT to state education. They are stealing from our children’s futures.

Yes, people are buying the advantage of having a proper, full education, instead of just being schooled enough to pass a set exams.

Of course there are state schools who offer an excellent education, but not everyone is lucky enough to live near one of them.

"Buying an advantage" like all the parents who use: tutors, grammars, afford ££ for houses in best cstchmebts, use state boarding schools, take their kids to theatres/museums, buy their children books, pay for them to do hobbies such as sports/music/drama you mean?

Every parent buys their child as much advantage as they can afford.
The parents who send their children to this state school are "buying advantage" but don't pay VAT...

Sutton Trust says top 200 state schools confer as much "privilege" as the elite public schools due to cohort eg PTA able to raise £millions due to wealthy parents etc.

And some, given the choice of an excellent state school or private, would still choose private. Each to their own of course but your argument doesn't apply to everyone.

I would expect so. And would also expect that their parents are clued up enough to have understood the subtleties. Not all schools will have had such schemes, of course. But I expect those parents realised that at the time, so there wouldn't be a jump in prepayment.

So I'd guess that any school which had a big jump in uptake of their prepayment scheme has one which does work (eg fees fixed for the duration, prepayment for set dates, no return of fees on student withdrawal etc). It would save everyone a lot of time and the taxpayers a lot of money if the government was also capable of drawing that rational conclusion. Unfortunately, I expect they'll waste yet more of our money grandstanding instead.

I find the numbers in the article for Brighton College a bit strange. They say £50.1 million in total prepaid fees, an increase of £4.1 million. So only 10% increase. But number of pupils covered has gone up from 86 to 819. That doesn’t make sense. Looks like a mistake in the article, and it's actually an increase from £4.1 million.

And many of us don't have access to excellent state schools 🙄

I said SOME do have access to excellent state schools and still CHOOSE private.

Do you 'buy the advantage' of giving your child a secure home, good nutritious meals, appropriate clothes, plenty of books, and your own time and help?

None of those attract VAT.
They make a much bigger difference to a child's life chances than education.

Would you be happy for us to deliberately limit your child's access to those things to only what the government provides as a minimum?

Same tired old arguments. You do the same and feel the need to pay for private education on top to confer most advantage. It's fine but own it.

Which is none of your fucking business. Just as it's none of my business that you've helped your child with her maths homework after making her a delicious dinner with plenty of protein and vegetables. VAT free.

I have never denied trying to parent my child to the best of my ability

It's only Labour and their supporters who pretend that's in any way strange or a bad thing which needs to be 'owned'.

That's not an argument, just a tirade. How do you keep those aggression levels so high? It must be exhausting.

The problem is that a lot of the privileged demographic are choosing the best state schools to save money and cut back on their productivity and retire early as well. So it’s hardly doing society any favours and is depriving another child of a better school place. That is highlighted by the Sutton Trust. The VAT on education makes both state schools and top private schools more elite. There is zero doubt about that. It raises barely any money and has caused further inequality. It’s completely shambolic and Labour need to own that. They should have never given in to the lefties in their own party who they have fallen out with now anyway.
At this point it’s pretty clear that Brighton College is the place to be for an alpha type family. Cannot think of a better way to advertise for them. Slow hand clap for Labour!

And your constant "privilege" matter is tired and old.
No answer to my previous post about how each and every parent gives their child some form of advantage.

We should just tax everything and then at least it would be fair. At the moment we have state schools with ponies and where PTAs consistently raise £1m+, where parents aren't charged an extra £1.

And just parroting worn out old phrases of "privilege" isn't an argument when the greatest wealth inequality exists within state system.

Fundamentally just admit that you support the taxation of children's education. Own it.

Also own that you support a policy which no other country in the world carries out. Now that Nigeria has reversed taxing education, we are ideological behind Nigeria wrt education. Ideological behind a country where only 25% of girls get a secondary education...... just own it.

FYI each child who leaves independent school for state school costs the taxpayer 5x the notional value of the VAT which now won't be collected for that child.....

I mean, you could argue that a parent whose child could go to an excellent state school but still chooses private, has freed up a space in the excellent state school for someone who could not afford private.

Don’t get me wrong, I know they don’t choose the private option for altruistic reasons, of course they don’t - but nevertheless, it’s a side effect.

Maybe you should ask yourself why, when faced with an excellent state choice, some parents still choose to spend thousands on a private education. I can think of plenty, and none of them (for us) were “connections”; an old-boys network; because we thought our children were better than everyone else’s; or for social status.

They can't think past barking out "privilege" 🙄

Your posts are so rude that most of the time I just scroll past. However, it's pretty obvious that every parent gives their child some advantage. So obvious that it didn't merit any comment that's all. You are always holding up the example of grammars and brilliant state schools yet don't acknowledge that even they wouldn't be good enough for some posters on here like Strawberry and plenty others I am sure. You may not like VAT but it is what it is. People can either pay it or move to state or move abroad. Those are the choices left. It may change once Labour are out or it may not but that's all for the future.

There are probably a handful at most of state schools with ponies in the country. Not a very good example.

Maybe one day a vindictive government will deliberately harm your family to make other people feel good, and people on mumsnet will parrot their senseless soundbites and say they agree with the vindictive policy. Then you'll know how deep the anger can run.

Rude? No, assertive yes. Angry and frustrated = certainly.
OK whatever 🙄
You literally have no argument other than "privilege" . I clearly stated Sutton Trust says top 200 state school confer as much "privilege" as top independent schools. That's not opinion, it's fact.

This will end up costing taxpayer money and you just need to admit that you support taxing the education if children.

I don't agree with it in principle but the constant repetition and aggressive tone on these threads certainly has a desensitising effect.