Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 7

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Continuation of previous threads discussing VAT on independent school fees. The thread title is a headline from a Times article last autumn.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5237575-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5242586-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5280646-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-3
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5301690-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-4
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5317397-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-5
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5337850-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-6

Try being on the end of it from the government!
My child and i have been called twats + cunts on here just cos of the type of school she goes to, so yeh I'm angry! The spite and hatred has been off the scale including in the press from Phillipson.

This is a policy directly targeting children and something that no other country in the world does so I think we've earned the right to be cross!

Many of us support you and your views @twistyizzy

Thank you x

Well I have never done any of that so your aggression is a bit misplaced. Keep it for them.

If it was you and your family being targetted and insulted, you would not be desensitised.

You entered with comments about 'buying privilege'.

You certainly seem desensitised to your own rudeness.

‘It’s generally agreed, by the ISC and individual schools, that VAT recovery means the net cost of VAT will be 15% not 20%’ https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/06/02/independent_schools_misleading_vat/

Just for those who are asking why schools should not pass the full 20% on to the fee payer.

https://www.ft.com/content/be7ef463-ed5f-4662-abc3-631902b376d9

https://www.ft.com/content/852bf8c5-302b-44ba-a022-79b8ac4fcb42

And a couple of articles explaining why rising fees have been damaging to the sector (making the addition of VAT unaffordable for some).

No I didn't. I said conferring advantage, which was what was described. It's not rude at all, it's just fact and you find it rude because you don't like it being highlighedt. Maybe stop hurling insults and start actually thinking about what you are saying.

I am not being aggressive to you. I am pointing out the shit show of a policy designed to target children. I am being assertive and not putting up with bollocks, thats not the same as being aggressive.

Conferring advantage - an interesting phrase.

Is it because it involves children that it bothers you so, and because of the ‘service offering divide’ between private and state, as you perceive it?

'Buying advantage' is rude

Like @twistyizzy I'm done with putting up with bollocks

I'm sure there are parents who assume private is always better than state and won't even look at local state options - but I suspect they are a minority of families. We looked at local state options (having assumed we would use the local state school), were quite surprised to find a load of issues there and uncertainty about school location/head teacher so looked at a nearby private school- which was much more impressive in terms of organisation, environment, feedback from other parents - so chose private. I think that's how most parents go- plus those leaving state as it's failed their kids.

Then there are people who are in an expensive city and can't afford a house in a good catchment area, but can afford private school fees.

I want my kids to have an excellent education. Why that is 'buying privilege' when somehow buying into an expensive school area or buying tutoring or an ADHD or autism assessment, or extracurricular activities isn't seen as 'privilege' I really don't understand.

My kids are privileged- given that they are from a middle class professional well paid family and so far have zero adverse experiences that's a pretty non-brainer comment.

Because being "from a middle class professional well paid family and so far have zero adverse experiences" is acceptable privilege, after all it's what all these so called socialists do themselves.

Buying your kids advantage and privilege is fine as long as it's the right sort of advantage and privilege. Independent schools are simply the wrong sort.

You are both woeful representatives of independent sector parents (and the education these schools provide).

I really don't. We are wealthy and DC had excellent grammar education. No personal axes to grind. I am 100% aware of my privilege. I just wish others were too. Maybe some could read the news about people not being able to even afford school uniform from a supermarket and have a rethink about how tough things really are.

Personal insults?? How mature

I am state educated FYI.

The posters who called my daughter a cunt are woeful adverts for state education!

What a shame.

We both started out a year ago with positive, detailed information about why this policy would backfire. Surely - we thought - people aren't really that vindictive and hate-filled towards our families. They must appreciate the contributions we already make. They just think it's a way to get needed funds.

But we learned differently. And now we have no patience for the bullshit and insults.

I'm still pretty polite until someone comes out with some insulting nonsense and then I respond similarly. No turning the other cheek, as these social justice warriors so clearly expect - based on their outrage when we don’t.

This will be a great case study: not only into economic self-sabotage (similar to Greece's brief education tax or France's brief wealth tax) but also on how a government can utterly alienate the part of their population who actually pays for all the state services everyone else enjoys. Attacking people's children is something you never come back from.

“I find the numbers in the article for Brighton College a bit strange. They say £50.1 million in total prepaid fees, an increase of £4.1 million. So only 10% increase. But number of pupils covered has gone up from 86 to 819. That doesn’t make sense. Looks like a mistake in the article, and it's actually an increase from £4.1 million.”

@strawberrybubblegum

I think it was suggested upthread that some of the pupils may have prepaid only a single year (while others may in theory have prepaid 15 years). So it is possible to have a large number joining the scheme but not necessarily bumping up the total £ taken by a huge amount.

Well said

It is not aggressive to ask that Labour account clearly on this VAT policy and how much they have gained on behalf of the taxpayer/or lost. That is the bare minimum they should do. They made claims as to how much it would raise and now they simply need to back that up.

If private school parents were told they are paying upwards of £3000 a year up to £10000 in some cases, per child, to go towards state schools and some benefit there, the least Labour need to do is show that. They have failed to apply it to state schools, have caused havoc in the private sector and now it seems they may even have cost us taxpayers money with this ideological war they have raged on school children and their families. Most of us said from the start this policy was doomed to fail. A manifesto pledge to help out state schools and raise taxes needs to do just that. If it has failed, it needs to be revoked as quickly as possible. However, if their aim was always to harm school children and the education sector, we need to know this now. There is accountability in democracy. So they need to account.

I agree but they would need to do the same with respect to policy elsewhere, including the non-dom reforms, and the SME NI increase, or house building etc.
Do as I say is their mantra - Starmer doesn’t brook any questioning of his authority, evidently.

Naturally they will not break out the numbers, simply because they cannot - they are economic pygmies, hell bent on waging class war. For the love of god, we have a sixth form drop out as DPM with nothing more than a vicious tongue, and a hitherto relationship with the unions.

People voted for this lot - boy are they going to reap the whirlwind, unfortunately with the rest of us.

I also find you rude, @twistyizzy - it’s no surprise that you disagree, though.

It's ok because I find you rude and dismissive too. You've previously accused me of being unreliable etc which could also be interpreted as being rude to me.

I spent 18 months being over polite on here about this topic but after 18 months of being dismissed, gaslit and abused, I am now just straight to the point and yes I will challenge. Strange how you can dish it out but not take it....