Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 5

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a continuation thread in anticipation of the fourth one filling up…

www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5301690-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-4?page=39

Are these the same think tanks that get charitable donations to then do studies and rant against grammar schools @OhCrumbsWhereNow ?
Seems like we are coming full circle now on the hypocrisy front.

IFS: While not explicitly a charity, the IFS operates as a non-profit organization, and donations are accepted through Charities Aid Foundation.

But others are charities due to education - with that being educating the public

Presumably because it’s a school open to all and doesn’t discriminate on the ability to pay fees.

Plenty of state academies only allow those in who can afford to live in their catchment. I really cannot see the difference conceptually. Quite often parents actually work out if it is cheaper to move and go state then just stay put and pay up for private schools.

Is it other children you feel so strongly about not benefitting or is it the parents you are trying to get at? It's weird how you can be so protective of some groups of children and yet seem to positively relish the idea of not helping others.

It’s not a difficult concept. If a school provides education free of charge and has an entirely open admissions policy, then it’s of public benefit.

Nurseries, pre schools, Schools, universities, swimming lessons, chess clubs, art classes, night school vocational classes, martial art classes, cooking courses etc that charge fees aren’t of public benefit? As a general rule if you have to constantly conduct elaborate mental gymnastics to justify an argument, your argument is unjustifiable. Just admit it’s good old fashioned crabs in a bucket spite and move on, everyone already knows it is anyway.

When junior doctors go on strike, do you think that they relish their patients not getting treatment?

I think those striking doctors mainly want redress for what they see as unjust treatment. They want an imbalance to be righted.

And I think by the time it gets to striking, those junior doctors are pretty angry. They want to remind the whole population how much they do for us.

And they probably feel a slight 'screw you' towards patients in the abstract - although still concern for individuals. They're human.

It's the same.

I feel that Labour and those state parents who support VAT and demand extra from us are taking outrageous advantage of us. Even as they take so much from us, they still have so little regard for us that they actually want us to be worse off, and don't care about (sometimes even relish) our children being harmed.

I want economic analysis to show the harm Labour have caused so that the law is repealed and private schools are never attacked in this way again.
(that's the imbalance being righted)

I want both Labour and those parents to be inconvenienced enough to realise what we were giving, and to acknowledge (at least to themselves) that they've messed up.
(that's reminding the whole population how much we do for them)

And I'm angry. I feel a definite 'well screw you then' towards both Labour (who are actually responsible for state education - not us - and also responsible for spending our taxes wisely) and also towards those parents who supported the VAT and were so contemptuous of us.
(that's the angry 'screw you')

I'm sorry that those state parents who haven't behaved that way (honorable mention to those on this thread) will be caught up in that. But in the same way that I support junior doctors striking when required, I hope they'll be supportive too.

And I'm pretty sure no actually harm will come to the kids. Their parents will just have to pay for the things they benefit from themselves, just as I do.

I don’t have to justify that argument because it was directly relating to state schools and nothing to do with the list you’ve dreamt up.

And also because I lifted it from a 2011 High Court judgement.

I didn’t add the next sentence: ‘It is hard to see how anyone sensible could suggest otherwise’.

It’s hardly a dream list, don’t tell me swimming lessons and universities are now on the Marxist equality hit list?

Fair enough on your second point, I didn’t read the quote history and just assumed it was more nonsense to justify education tax. I’ll let you off on that one.

Just wow.

There is so much that is wrong in this post and I have neither the time nor the inclination to pull it apart. The mental gymnastics to justify this warped thinking are quite something.

However, I will comment on one thing.

"And they probably feel a slight 'screw you' towards patients in the abstract - although still concern for individuals. They're human."

This comment is awful.

DD is training to be a doctor and would never, ever think like that. She would never have chosen to be a doctor if this 'screw you' way of thinking towards her patients were in her psyche and I hope no med school would have selected her if she had. She would be shocked if she thought any peers thought like this. Are you aware of the 'Do no harm' principle? The biggest negative for striking resident doctors is by far the impact on their patients.

This comment demonstrates the extent of your personal bitterness in all its glory and how it distorts your view of everything. I'm totally done with engaging with your posts. They make me nauseous.

It’s hardly a dream list, don’t tell me swimming lessons and universities are now on the Marxist equality hit list?

I said dreamt up list, because it was entirely unrelated to the discussion on academies.

OK, @kendricksgin, enjoy your self-righteous delusions. It doesn't change reality.

@SabrinaThwaite - the legal point I was trying to make is that private schools with charitable status now already have to pay business rates (unlike any other charity) so that should be litigated as surely that more than compensates for the public benefit requirement (the tax contributes locally, in a substantial way). It is either they pay business rates or they have to do local work as well (if educating the children paying fees in their school is supposedly only part of public benefit as per the 2011 case), you cannot logically demand both of them. The Labour Government have singled out private schools and it should be litigated. I also don’t think it is consistent with some of the principles in the June 2023 Supreme Court judgment Nuffield Health vs Merton.

The fact is a lot of private schools have governing boards full of volunteers and they probably are not as fiercely aggressive as some real businesses would be, if attacked in this way. They are probably just hoping for the storm to pass and carry on as normal and that parents will simply pay up.

The irony of you calling anyone deluded with all your deluded rantings.Thank goodness my reality is very different from yours.

I think you’re clutching at straws that paying business rates is ‘public benefit’.

If the ISC gets advice to that effect, then I’m sure it will be happy to mount a legal challenge.

And a huge part of the reason doctors are striking is for better conditions for their patients so they can actually treat them properly and safely. And they are resident doctors, not junior doctors. Your ignorance is astounding.

Would also add that Scottish independent schools have been subject to full business rates for a few years now, and that doesn’t seem to have resulted in litigation?

https://www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/junior-doctors-announce-new-strike-dates-in-england-ahead-of-general-election

It seems you don't know as much as you think you do.

Maybe.. just maybe I'm right about the rest as well...

I know your brain won't accept that as a possibility 😂

The storm will pass which is why it’s worth holding onto the charitable status.

Did you miss the banner at the top of the page you linked saying 'Junior doctors have changed their name to resident doctors'? 😂I think it's maybe you who doesn't know as much as you think you do.

O.M.G, you seriously can't see the woods for the trees. That's what you're berating me for now?!

Did you miss the actual content of the article from the BMA?

Junior doctors in England have announced new strike dates ahead of the General Election as Rishi Sunak continues to refuse to meet junior doctors’ demands for a roadmap to restore pay lost over the last 15 years

How does a change in job title have any bearing on anything at all??

The BMA are also pretty clear there about why they're striking.

But no, @kendricksgin knows better than the BMA, because she has a DD at Oxford, studying to become a doctor one day, don't you know.

LOL