Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 5

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a continuation thread in anticipation of the fourth one filling up…

www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5301690-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-4?page=39

I recently joined MumsNet specifically to see how other people are feeling about the VAT and school fees issue and private schools in general. I am a full-time single parent (and full-time working mum) of 2 children at an independent school that I chose for valid reasons as the best option for my children. They were fortunate enough to be offered generous bursaries (means-tested, and not covering 100% of the fees) and grandparents (not rich) who have assisted with school fees. I have nothing at all against state schools (my two went to a state school until year 7) and it's a shame that the two systems are often pitted against each other.
I have become increasing concerned about the accusations of "unfair privilege" because I see such a broad spectrum of families, from different socio-economic backgrounds at the private schools I now find myself involved with. All us parents and our children are being tainted with the "posh and privileged" brush; the kids even get taunted by strangers on their way to and from school. Of course there are some very wealthy families at elite independent schools, but I can find no robust research data that suggests we are all super-wealthy. We are not. Many of us choose to make personal and financial sacrifices in order to send our children to the local schools that we feel will suit them best, for numerous reasons and despite being far from wealthy.
A small group of parents have become so concerned about misinformation, biases and unpleasant and unfair targeting of our schools and families that we have set up the Association for Families of Independent Schools. We are all volunteers, who are committed to doing something proactive to counteract the antagonism and misperceptions and contribute to informed, evidence-based, balanced debate. We will be commissioning independent research that will analyse the profile of our families to provide robust, objective data.

I'm sorry if this sounds like an advert. It isn't meant to be. I just want to let other parents who share our concerns know they are far from alone and that someone is trying to create a collaborative platform that will give parents a unified voice that has been lacking, not just in relation to the VAT issue.

How do we find out more? Do you have a website?

https://www.northantstelegraph.co.uk/community/please-help-me-keep-dancing-12-year-old-frankie-keita-from-corby-appeals-for-support-as-he-fundraises-to-stay-at-the-royal-ballet-school-5083584?

The government funding doesn’t cover the VAT at White Lodge.

Madness…

I am back after a post-court case hiatus however we had to go back to court last week cos government were trying to supress evidence.
The evidence in question was the NAO report they had commissioned and accepted!
So that was fun!

Do you know when the substantive judgment is expected please?

Judgement on admissability of the NAO report expected within next week and from that I think we will be able to guess the outcome. If judges rule the report stands as evidence then we are really hopeful of the overall verdict.

I can’t edit the post above but here is the link to the Times article from which the thread quote comes:
https://archive.ph/uqjUj

Thank you for the new thread @ICouldBeVioletSky

Thank you for the update @twistyizzy

How likely do think it is that the NOA report will be admissible? Great to hear Lord Pannick was on form.

And yes indeed the worry of judges being swayed by Starmer is a solid one. Who knows what goes on in private behind closed doors.

I really hope they cannot be bought, financially or emotionally.

But you have to see that if you can make those sacrifices and have choices to allow your children to go to private school you are in fact more well off than most people who have no choice but to send to the local comp. I understand your point but I think you’re failing to see where others are coming from. You lucky and are privileged.

I mean it is a fucking NAO report that is out in public domain, it is disgusting that government are trying to say it is inadmissible!! Judges were not impressed.
I wouldn't put anything past Starmer tbh

As are parents who use state but employ tutors, send kids to grammar schools, afford houses in best catchment areas etc. So are parents who take kids to museums + art galleries + theatres. Or parents who take their kids on holidays!
Do we tax everything and stop parents giving any advantage to their kids because not every child has opportunity to go to the theatre?

Are you aware that top 500 state schools in the country are as selective as any independent school? That the wealthiest parents use state schools? That the networks Starmer's kids get will be the same as in Eton?

It's not really luck @thismummydrinksgin . Do you and your partner both work full time? Many state school children have at least one part-time working parent.

That benefits your children, your family, but not mine. But you don't pay any extra tax for that privilege you're giving your children.

In fact, since you're earning less than if you were working full time, then you pay less tax - which means that by taking that privilege for your own children, you are subsidised even more by those of us who do work full time. Your state schools, hospitals, everything - already subsidised by us - and still you expect to tax us even more.

If you pay enough tax that you're not being subsidised (approx £40k salary per adult) then you absolutely can afford private school, and you're choosing not to.

@ICouldBeVioletSky quoting from thread 4:
While many have melted into the ether more recently (wonder why that may be 🤔) we’ve still had the likes of “Katbum” starting threads entitled: “To be gleeful that most of us were right”.

Yet if they had only waited a couple of months to the court case we could have proved that we were right all along!

I have been accused of being "unreliable" by a certain pro-VAT poster yet 100% of what I have said previously was proven in the court case and the impact on schools/children.
Now we have celebs going to media saying their kids didn't get ANY of their choices of state primary schools even though we have shrinking birth rate in those years.....wonder why?!

As a snapshot of our part of the country (south-east, relatively affluent):
There are 14 ISC schools in the surrounding area offering places at prep/primary age (either prep or all-through). Two have announced they're closing. two more will merge (smaller bought out by larger). That brings the number down from 14 to 11 from Sep 25.
Two others are running with 67-69% of places filled and one has 86% of places filled. These are all vulnerable to closure and may not last past 2026. Schools which would previously have been full to the gills (the kind you had to put your child's name down for when they were a baby) have filled about three quarters of their reception places for next year. Upper year groups are fairly full, mostly because they've mopped up those displaced from the schools that are closing. So for prep/primary, 14 schools will reduce to 11 from September and may ultimately reduce to 8 within a couple more years.
For senior/secondary places there were 5 schools and this will decrease to 4 next year. The remaining schools are expected to survive and are thus far fairly full (around 95% of capacity), but all have vacancies in most year groups for the first time ever.
The schools that are closing are generally the smaller ones. Weighted by size, the local area is losing about 15% capacity in it's prep schools with another 15% at risk of closure. New entrants (i.e. reception) to the prep schools look like they'll be down about 30% (taking into account the schools that won't exist, and the empty seats in the ones remaining open). At senior/secondary, capacity will be down 5% and numbers down 10%.

I genuinely don’t understand why anyone is still defending it.

Because some die hard Labour tribalists will support them to the death.
Personally, I want an enquiry + Phillipson to be gone. The damage they’ve actively sought from day one to education needs to be called out and publicly acknowledged. The school closures and disruption to children whilst spouting lies, and it’s not just Bridget we had Starmer also lying that there was no evidence it would cause school closures when they knew that wasn’t right! The court case was such an eye opener that they KNEW the impact + damage, lied about it and went ahead anyway.

I guess they're feeling "gleeful" (but shhhh! mustn't point it out).

They KNEW it would bring in £0, and most likely cost the state, which is exactly what we predicted and yet they pressed ahead.
Yet we were sworn at, called unreliable and told we were peddling hyperbole + hysteria!
I will never forgive Labour and those posters who still try to defend the policy/Labour are beneath contempt.

Thank you for the new thread VioletSky
TwistyIzzy so grateful for the work you are doing

Thanks to everyone showing how bad this policy is.

"He receives partial funding through the Government’s Music and Dance Scheme, which helps with tuition, accommodation, and other core costs. "
They haven't even exempted kids they fund due to poverty! So they government are effectively paying to tax themselves now as well as disrupt talented kids they once thought were worth supporting?

A lot of “information” being peddled about what a detrimental impact Independent schools have on society comes from the Private Education Policy Forum (PEPF). Apologies if I’ve missed references to this previously (I’m a newbie).

As one of the founders of the new Association for Families of Independent schools (www.afis.org.uk) I’ve been looking at lots of their reports online and am shocked at how biased their way of presently “research” results is, eg:

“ONLY 7 percent of private school pupils receive a means-tested bursary or scholarship” (note the use of “only”)

Their article, ”Private Schools don’t boost results, they shield privilege” takes great pleasure in stating that it’s not because private schools offer better education (which I firmly believe many of them do) but because of who attends the school, that they achieve better results.

Well, it doesn’t take a genius to work out that if the majority of students at any school come from families who are hugely invested in their children’s future, their home environment and support, motivation and encouragement from their parents, grandparents etc, will contribute to the children’s attitudes to learning and their overall academic achievements.

I know lots of parents who choose to send their children to local Catholic state schools (nothing at all against them) because they get better results than other state schools in the area. I’m sure there’s a link between the profile of parents who choose to send their children to these schools (eg socio-economic and cultural factors) but no one is saying it’s wrong to choose these schools (even when people “pretend” to be Catholic, or move house to improve their chances of entry) because you’ll be getting an unfair advantage. The same can be said for state Grammar Schools.

If any of you want to spoil your Easter weekend and melt all the chocolate eggs with your boiling blood, have a look at PEPF (or, save your sanity and don’t).

PEPF is a Labour lobby group. A far left wing of Labour lobby group.
They are also a charity and benefit from the same "exemptions" as they accuse independent schools of benefitting from.
Nothing as hypocritical as a far left party pretending to stand for "equality"