Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 4

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Continuing the discussion about the impact of VAT on independent schools…

@FairMindedMaiden

All we have is two people who obviously feel a bit guilty and bitter about their educational choices for their children and want to force their choices on others.

Who is ‘a bit guilty and bitter’?

Do explain.

“The Act makes provision to allow for the setting of higher multipliers for hereditaments with a rateable value or £500,000 or over, effective from the 2026/27 billing year. The rate of the multiplier will be announced by the Chancellor at the Autumn Budget 2025.”

Does this essentially mean they could do what they like for the big public schools? So if Harrow, Eton, Winchester, Westminster etc with big grounds claim back a lot of VAT and it is exposed in the press (all predicted that this will come out quite soon), then they will try and sting them for huge business rates?

So it is exactly what Trump is doing to Harvard. They do not like public schools so they are going to use their office to bully them into submission whatever way they can?

@Xenia - so why is nobody challenging the business rates element? I remember Nuffield Health challenged it against Merton and won. How can they just get away with singling out certain charities, without removing charitable status?

I do think they are treating private schools like cigarettes and alcohol. I held that believe all along. They see them as causing social harm and will try anything to tax as many as possible out of existence. With no regard to the small schools fulfilling a critical purpose for SEND children.

I am also not sure that anyone using great state schools for their children who is otherwise wealthy like @KendricksGin is bitter at all. Surely they are most happy they saved lots of money and their DCs did incredibly well.
There are plenty of really excellent state schools out there, they are just not available to everyone.

It hasn't been spoken about much: I think it's because it was sneaked in later when we were already in an uproar about the VAT. And it's less obvious to people how much it will cost.

So just to understand: business rates cost 55% of the rental value of the property?

As you say, that will be horrific for schools with large grounds and facilities (or those in central London). But even for a smaller school I'm trying to make an incredibly rough estimate based on a quick Google on cost of building a school, and I think it may be about £1k per student per year. Is that about right? That's a lot!

And although businesses like hospitality and leisure (?!?) get business rates relief, schools will get nothing.

And although businesses normally get transitional relief if their rates go up too suddenly, schools are expected to be able to absorb the completely new tax from this April, with no relief at all. Just 4 months after being hit with the new 20% VAT.

God, Labour are such complete and utter bastards, aren't they. Total fuckwittted fuckers.

I don't quite understand the multipliers. Can they be targeted (eg at private schools) or is it a way for government to change business rates for everyone by up to 10% up or 20% down, without passing separate laws? Can't imagine it will ever be adjusted down!

Me! Me! I hope it’s me! Pick me!!!

No surely @CurlewKate - your DC did very well, and you chose the “get involved” method to support the school. I did/do that as well. Once you know and understand the system, it is very simple to support the child with no additional needs to do well, especially if you are coming from a position of educational privilege yourself.
However, it requires a lot of time and energy and I think it is unrealistic to expect huge swathes of the population working intense full time jobs to do that. It is partly why some people end up paying up for private primary school, childcare/clubs/they do not have the time to get “involved”.

Most successful state primary schools rely very heavily on engaged parents doing the reading/extra work and volunteering for all sorts of trips and going in regularly. When all of mine were little and I worked 2 days a week there were times I was volunteering in state primary twice a week regularly, as well as the governor roles. Most people do not have the time and luxury to do that.

This makes me so furious. The 20% VAT was just the start. I am horrified as a Labour voter that I have enabled this. I honestly thought Labour believed in education and would reverse the pitiful funding for state schools that we’ve had for decades. I thought they would drop that stupid manifesto promise because it’s so obviously destructive. Nope.

These private schools are still someone’s kid’s schools. That their families rely on to educate their kids. That their families also rely on so that we can work. How is all the deliberate imposition of another financial cliff edge not going to close even more private schools down? And then what happens?

There are several parents on this thread who cannot access a suitable state school for our children with SEND. We would not otherwise be using private education but there is no alternative for our kids.

So I’d love some practical advice please from the politically motivated posters on here as to how I can find a state school place that meets my DC needs. Because when I asked my state school and local authority they told me said up to 18 months to wait for a school place. Other posters on here had to wait even longer with their kids out of school. But clearly some people on here know better than them.

This illegality and lack of resourcing and care for kids with SEND, starts right at the top of government. I’m coming to understand that it probably doesn’t actually matter who we vote for because SEND kids are more expensive to educate and thus are being absolutely failed in their basic legal rights to be able to get an education.

That is unless you and/or anyone else in your family can scrape up enough cash together yourselves to start to pay term by term for your child to be in a more suitable small group school environment. Not even a specialist SEND provision that would be even more expensive, just somewhere with smaller classes and a quieter environment. This is for kids who have been acknowledged by the professionals to need that type of setting.

The experiences of people on here whose kids have sailed through and achieved wonderful results in their wonderful local state schools are so irrelevant to this ongoing crisis in SEND that it’s just like trolling to keep repeating it at this stage. I asked about this before and was ignored, but genuinely what, is my child supposed to actually do, if and when the small private school that we are using, goes bust? As a direct intentional result of government policy.

I honestly thought Labour believed in education and would reverse the pitiful funding for state schools that we’ve had for decades.

I'm sorry to say that on current evidence, Labour and its apologists believe in

• levelling down education
• removing choice
• pointing at squirrels
• yawning and snarking, but it's A-OK when they do it

I wish your DC all the best and I'm so sorry you have this worry now.

Thank you for your kind post. I can’t disagree with what you’ve said at all. I honestly barely recognise this government. They’re punching down on disabled children and adults wherever they can and it’s absolutely shameful.

Leaving aside anyone’s views on the rights and wrongs of any policies, from a practical PoV, if DC is CSA and you no longer can &/or wish to make your own arrangements, the LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring DC receives a suitable full-time education (whether that is via a state school or otherwise). If the LA refuses, ignores you or delays, you can force them to act, including via JR if necessary. Don’t take advice on the legal processes from the LA, LAs lie all the time. And many schools give inaccurate advice because they are schooled in LA policies that are often unlawful.

Where in the EHCP process are you?

@CurlewKate but you haven’t replied to my question. Why don’t you try?

I also wanted to pick up on the issue of banding/lottery school allocation systems. My nieces live in an area that does this, and it’s widely hated by everyone. Kids can’t plan to be with friends from primary, they can’t guarantee they’ll get in somewhere even right next door or with a decent public transport route, the whole city is in time-consuming gridlock twice a day (just because an area might look like it’s relatively compact or have decent bus/school transport, doesn’t mean it actually does, or that it works in the morning when everyone’s trying to get to work plus kids to schools somewhere else in the city). In their area you can not get a place at a school literally down the road, but find that several kids do who live a long way out of the local area.

One of my nieces got such an unsuitable random school allocation miles away (and not in the school with the older sibling), that her parents have also had to pay for private because it wasn’t feasible for her to attempt to get there every morning on three different buses. And that’s in an area which does have decent public transport. Try it in a rural area or a town or city which doesn’t, and how are banded/lottery admissions logistically going to work? What about the extra climate cost of bussing/transport/additional car journeys? Not to mention that everyone hates the banding/lottery system and thinks it’s really unfair, just in a different way.

Agree with everything in this post. It drives me completely crackers that there are still people who seem to genuinely believe that all students’ needs can be met in state schools.

Who are these people?

I don’t think anyone can possibly “genuinely believe that all students’ needs can be met in state schools.” But there are plenty of folks who pretend/lie that this is the case. Bridget and Rachel being just two, plus all those involved in repeatedly refusing appropriate EHCP provision for SEND children forcing the families to go to tribunal (where they almost inevitably win).

And there have certainly been some wilfully ignorant and/or tone deaf posters on these threads who’ve suggested as much.

The 'gleeful' thread had a particularly unpleasant poster (katbum or something) who seemed to think some SEN kids just needed to get over themselves. I think the comments got deleted.

I can believe that some people are ignorant of the level of inadequacy of state SEN provision if they don’t have a DC with SEN just because it is not on their radars. I have learned a lot from reading threads like these. However, it is Reeves and Phillipson’s business to know. I firmly believe that there should be a full VAT exemption for SEN DC.

Can I ask a possibly silly question - does "the introduction of higher non-domestic rating multipliers as regards large business hereditaments, and lower non-domestic rating multipliers as regards retail, hospitality and leisure hereditaments, in England and for the removal of charitable relief from non-domestic rates for private schools in England." not apply to universities? It says businesses...with "and private schools" on the end, which to my reading includes but doesn't exclude other large businesses? So are all universities with campus buildings having this applied too?

Yes fair point - some people are understandably unaware. Others fully aware and just downright dishonest.

Any news on the judgement of the court yet? When are we likely to get an update?

There should be no VAT on education at all.

I agree it is a bad policy but it is particularly bad for vulnerable SEN DC for whom the state cannot make adequate provision.

The issue with exempting SEN (which should be the very least that happens) is where are the lines drawn?

Currently exemption is an EHCP with the LA naming and funding the school.

Lots of children don't have EHCPs - especially in private schools - because parents have decided their time and money is better spent finding appropriate provision rather than fighting the system for years.

I was very much dissuaded from applying for one for my child - and by the time I realised it would actually be very worthwhile to have, it was too late because she would have left school before we got to the end of the process.

Do you set it as having exam access arrangements? A diagnosis?

We paid privately for DD's ADHD diagnosis as it's a 3 year wait for assessment where I live. The GP said he was happy to refer, but given it was a case of when she got the Dx, not 'if', then if we could he encouraged us to pay and get her medicated fast. So if you need a diagnosis, you are prioritising those who can afford to fast track that.

Lots of disabilities are on a spectrum - both DH and DD are dyslexic. DH makes the odd typo, DD struggles massively to write a sentence (without tech).

ASD is everything from a bit quirky to non-verbal and profound disability.

What about depression, anxiety, social phobias, school refusers?

If you save 20% on fees, that incentivises a lot of parents without SEN children to find something that ticks the boxes. You now have vast numbers of PS kids in the diagnostic channels meaning longer wait times and fewer resources for those in state or HE.

Therefore in the interests of saving councils, NHS and teachers vasts amounts of time, effort and/or money... it is considerably easier just to not have VAT at all.

I so agree. The under-funding of SEN nationally is £4.5b as per the NAO report which the government commissioned and is now trying to prevent being used in court.

VAT is supposed to raise £1.7b a year.

If SEN children move over to state school and increase the SEN underfunding further, where will that £1.7b be spent? Lots of it will go on supporting newly arrived SEN kids.

The government didn’t think this through. The bill to fund these kids in state school is going to end up more expensive for them than leaving them where they are with parents paying privately for them.

As private schools close, the £1.7b is in question any way.

They forgot that private school has many many SEN kids. It’s full of them, because many who have the money will spend it to try to ease their kids difficulties of coping with state offering.

Very ill thought out policy.

Well, I think the "logic" that Reeves applied in deciding where to draw the line was: "We will only tax the ones who are snobs. All of them are snobs. And they beat me and Ellie at chess. So let's tax them all. That'll show them". That's consistent with her new Statesman Interview and subsequent actions.

It's impossible to draw a line fairly when there are spectrum conditions, which is one more reason not to have a line when none is necessary.
Logic / fairness would also have dictated that if they knew the SEN system is in failure, then they should first fix the state SEN system and ensure it has capacity for an extra 100,000 kids before they clobber parents of kids with SEN with VAT. You can't ethically force kids out of their schools and do your best to destroy private schools on the strength of a vague hope that at some point in the next few years the state SEN provision might improve, when the NAO has identified that there is no coherent plan for improvement and no stakeholders have confidence that the changes in progress will fix the crisis.
The NAO also identified a 4.6 billion hole in state SEN funding and no plan to fill it. Even if the VAT raised what they claim (it won't) and even if they spent it all on SEN (they won't), it would still only fill one-third of the hole in SEN funding.

It's rather like kicking 50,000 people out of their homes because you have some nice artist impressions of a housing development you want to build and telling them they can live on the building site while it's being developed, even though you don't have a coherent blueprint of what to build, you don't know how long it'll take, and your accountant has told you that you're 4 billion short of what'd be needed to build it. Reeves and Phillipson are the cowboy builders of the SEN system.