Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 5

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a continuation thread in anticipation of the fourth one filling up…

www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5301690-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-4?page=39

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/NV78_1VTMbE

How do private school parents feel about this? Are you not working people? Did they actually take from you and yours?

Thought some of you might be interested in this MARCH FOR CHILDREN event in London next month (in case you’ve not heard about it)

https://marchforchildren.uk

Personally, I would assume that a March for Children would be a march for the many children growing up in poverty in this country…..

CurlewKate · Today 18:14
My children are very posh. They were not bullied for it in their state schools

What is your definition of ‘posh’?

Do you think private school children should get free breakfasts?

Put them in a private school uniform and you couldn't tell the difference. 🤣

Do you think wealthy parents at Outstanding state schools funded by the state should?

I'm not expecting anyone (except DH) to give me breakfast 😂

Private school dc aren’t all ‘posh’. There’s plenty of state school dc who have privilege anyway.

Maybe they should stump up taxes rather than leaning on VAT for someone else to pay.

Isn't that what they do when they pay their tax bills?

Me neither, but my point is that wealthy parents in state schools are entitled to this benefit. It is bonkers that people think that the use of private schools is somehow an effective form of means testing when lots of very wealthy people use fantastic state schools and spend their money on other luxuries like expensive holidays and fancy cars.

Well @CurlewKate - I thought private school parents are meant to be paying for the breakfast clubs of state school parents, even if the private school parents have SEND kids and are often worse off than some state school parents, who will get free breakfast clubs? Starmer is putting up to 8k into the pockets of working families. Except if you both work and have your children in private school, he is more likely to be taking 8k from you.

It’s a state school so yes. Means testing is expensive and inefficient. Why is the school being outstanding relevant?

Then we strongly disagree.

My kids have been to both private and state schools and the wealthiest parents I knew were in the Outstanding state school. It is relevant because the standard of education funded by the state in that school was better than the local private schools. It was absolutely no hardship for them to send their kids there, they saved the money for fancy cars and holidays and now get free breakfasts for their children too. This is an insane use of tax payer money and is a real slap on the face for those that feel forced to use private schools because the state isn't meeting their children's needs properly.

Well exactly and Starmer’s direct address to MN and “working parents” is quite insulting given all the private school VAT threads on here and the fact that many of those parents a) work and b) many have SEND kids. It is almost like he is worried another big court case may be lost, as predicted by MN.

Personally I don’t think that private school parents (many who are making large sacrifices) should be taxed on their school fees in order to fund breakfasts of wealthier people using the state system and thus already costing the taxpayer £8k per child per year.

@BumpitybumperOf all the bonkers things said by everyone on these threads, the assertion that the wealthiest parents are using state schools is the most bonkers!

You are seriously naive if you think that wealthy people aren't using state schools. In lots of places the high performing state schools outperform or match the achievements of local private schools. It is also true that plenty of people on relatively modest incomes use private schools often with assistance from grandparents to pay the fees. This is my lived experience so I don't really care if you call me bonkers! I have good friends who earn at least £200k combined and they have two kids in the local Outstanding state school. The amount of Ranger Rivers and Teslas etc parked outside the school show that they're not alone. You really need to get your head around the fact that all state schools are not equal and some are acting like state funded quasi private schools.

I think the issue is how you define wealth. I am defining wealthy by family wealth rather than just earnings, which is only a part of the picture. I think the statistics banded around are all based on earnings. I would class £200k joint income as no more than reasonably affluent in London and home counties and you certainly wouldn't be sending DC to top boarding schools on it, particularly if you need to fund a house from it. The 'wealthiest' parents I know are all sending DC to board at Eton, Harrow, Wycombe Abbey, St Pauls, Westminster, Wellington etc. I would say there are affluent DC in good state schools but the seriously wealthy tend to send their children where their families have gone for generations.

I think you are thinking of the aristocracy and the very small percentage of the population that have serious family wealth. I would agree that these people generally use the top private schools. They are also a tiny proportion of those that use private schools and most private schools aren't like Eton etc.

I don't live in London or the home counties but a relatively wealthy area in the South. £200k is a very high household salary. Only 2% of households have an income of £200k so it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that they are merely 'reasonably affluent'. I know you are trying to downplay the fact that actual wealthy people go to state schools but the fact that the tax payer is funding these people's children's breakfasts is laughable. To then have the cheek to charge VAT to others that feel forced to turn to private schools because they live outside the hugely expensive catchment for the outstanding school and only have a choice of poor choices is disgusting!

Btw just to add, I have a foot in both camps at the moment and find it bizarre that I am being charged VAT on school fees for one child whilst being offered a free breakfast club for the other. It is true insanity!

@BumpitybumperYou are seriously naive if you think that wealthy people aren't using state schools”

I don’t think that. I am, and did.

I am in London and there are plenty of families with incomes over 200k living in houses worth 1-2 million plus with future inheritances coming - using state schools. In fact, it’s the norm now to use state. The top schools are either households with just 1 child or the seriously high income which to me is 500k plus here, for many years. Remember the state takes half of your income at a certain level.
We are well off and use state schools. We have 4DC and had I sent them to top private schools well it’s 30-60k per child now so 120-240k per year post tax income! For which you would need to be earning in the 500k plus bracket if you also still have a mortgage and holidays.

So yes in London where we also have universal free school meals currently all through primary, some private school parents with SEND kids will be far poorer than many state parents here. However, one could argue most of the richer state parents have paid lots of tax and are perfectly entitled to use state schools. That is not the issue. The issue is taxing private school parents who aren’t rich and just presuming they all are.

Ditto

You seem to be missing my point that a £200k income in London/SE doesn't mean that you can do private school for several children once you take into account housing costs etc. So the rhetoric that 'wealthy people are choosing state schools and fancy cars' just doesn't hold water. There are people who you would call wealthy (I would call affluent) who are sending their DC to state schools because it fits their household budgets, as Araminta says. Once you get to £500k+ wealth, it is a choice and a different story.

I don't live in London. Most people don't. My friends are choosing holidays and cars over private school. This is fact! They could easily afford private school for their two kids. You don't need to earn £500k for private school to be a choice. If that were true there would be far fewer people attending private schools than are actually currently enrolled.