Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 5

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a continuation thread in anticipation of the fourth one filling up…

www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5301690-whitehall-braced-for-private-schools-collapse-4?page=39

I am very anti Brexit and very anti VAT. I see that as entirely consistent.

There are things on this thread I find utterly baffling. I understand most points, even if I don’t agree with them, and I can see the point of view of people I disagree with fundamentally.However, I can’t begin to understand why Starmer should be deciding national educational policy based on gratitude for what happened in his own education when he was 14. Or why he shouldn’t let his child stay with a family friend just because the family friend concerned is rich!

I don’t see any contradictions in your posts.

Ah, OK. Good for them.

Still, most UK students won’t get to ETH because, although the fees are low, the living costs are high and you can’t get UK maintenance loans for full time overseas courses.

I think I am correct in saying your DC go to grammar? If they turned around one day and told you they thought you should have paid for private because they were traumatised by grammar/you made a terrible choice for them and ruined their lives considering your infinite wealth and posh roots, you'd tell them to get a grip, I am guessing?

Starmer trying to stop kids like him having a similar education feels very much like he isn't appreciative of his good fortune for having that school even as an option. If he didn't think they did anything to spur him on why is he so convinced they are giving people unfair advantages? Surely you can see the hypocrisy in taking with one hand and while holding down others? Even if you can't see how grammar schools are unfair and selective surely you can see that him taking a bursary rather than moving was for his benefit and without it he may not have got the results he did to get to his choice of Uni if he had been forced to leave and go to a comp, with all the disruption at the very least? If your kids decided they were going to go on a life long mission to abolish all grammar schools how would you feel?

Same here. No inconsistency in that.

Being anti VAT has what bearing wrt overseas degrees when there is no UK student finance available for them?

ETH still very cheap when DC unrolled

Fees might be low but ETH estimates living costs at £20k per year. That’s a lot to find with no UK funding.

He should decide policy on a better basis than the awful VAT. And probably not lie about why his kid was at someone else’s house and claim whatever he did for it.

Your post doesn’t mean much to me, I meant that the pp @Araminta1003is very clear on why she’s anti VAT.

When you say ‘what happened him in his own education when he was 14’ do you mean he went to a private school? Odd turn of phrase, you make it sound like he had an accident or went to prison.
But yes, I agree with you that it shouldn’t matter at all that he went to a private school.

This thread is truly awful, so much nastiness from some. I’m not new nc.

The fundamental issue is that the Labour Party have put VAT on Education, unheard of in most civilised countries. Certainly unheard of in most of the rest of Europe. Shocking.

Taxing education, philosophically a terrible thing, but without a visible detailed cost benefit analysis whatsoever, even more bizarre.

Who’d ever have thought the Labour Party would tax education. Incredible. Strange times. Silly incompetent Keir and colleagues.

TBH your comment of ‘Who also is clear on the topic of VAT’ didn’t mean much to me either.

It was a response to a PP saying Don't forget the unrivalled privilege that would make us mere mortals weep. Oxbridge, clever, London, blah blah. I forgot it's all just an excuse to boast. and another poster replying This is normal in my (and I suspect Araminta’s') circles and certainly not boast-worthy. It depends on the audience I suppose.

Great that Araminta’s DC is having a great opportunity - but it’s still true that’s not an opportunity open to the vast majority of children in the UK.

It is great but what has your comment got to do with VAT?

@SabrinaThwaite - there are no extra living costs for us as a family member emigrated there, for a better work life balance. Also my DC has an incredibly lucrative part time job. There are thousands of dual nationals in this country with links to Europe, Ireland, Asia with talented youngsters who may end up doing similar in years to come.

Ok, I am going to throw the cat among the pigeons here.

We live in a very demographically white area. I am black, my husband is white, my DD is black, her DH is mixed race. My DGC are ‘brown’, quote( theirs).

One of the reasons we decided, as DGPs to pay for their private education was because, living in a predominantly white community, we could see that they would be in a more diverse community in private school.

In their schools prep and secondary, there is a diverse mix of Chinese(Hong kong, Mangolia), African (Ghanaian, Nigerian, Ethiopian), French, Ukrainian, American, Syrian… I could go
on, but predominantly white indigenous.

The surrounding state primary and secondary schools are predominantly white indigenous.
And I am not saying that this is a problem, but there is nothing wrong with diversity.

There is also a mix of incomes, my DD and her DH could never in a million years afford private education for their 2 DC, but me and my DH can.

Which brings me to my next point. Many PPs are
saying don’t blame Keir Starmer for the decisions his parents made, he was a child. ‘It’s not his fault’ that his school became independent’.

He took and passed the 11+, Selective! His parents knew what they were doing when he sat them. It is a choice.

He did, categorically, have a privileged education.

On top of the safe and quiet space that his son had to study for his GCSE’s, Lord Ali also paid £20,000 to rent a property for a further, quiet apartment away from the public view place for him to study.

I personally do not have a problem with this. But let’s call a spade a spade!

My niece is starting secondary school in London in September at the school that David Cameron’s daughter went to in Westminster. I am sure that he was not and is not the only MP, whose child attends this school.

Absolutely

I forgot to say, the school that my niece is starting and David Cameron’s daughter went to is a state school.

It was a response to a PP about opportunities available to some children.

Grey Coat is more like a private school. Gove sent his kid there too. There’s a huge difference between these top top state schools and the ones most of the electorate have to send their children to.

Exactly!

My niece though is certainly not from a privileged background.

You are fortunate that you have family there to host, because it’s the living costs (rent and food) that are the biggest expense (£18k on the ETH website).

It still doesn’t change the fact that ETH recommends a £20k budget for students, which, without any UK funding available, is just not an option for to the vast majority of UK students.

They need to find a way to tax it, so it’s less affordable and more equal.

Come again?

Who is taxing ETH?

I’m sure Labour can figure it out.

Starmer's parents were Labour supporters, but apparently they didn't understand what they were doing sending him for 11+ and then keeping him in a fee paying school. Maybe they were not mature enough either 🤷‍♀️ Or the lack of integrity somehow runs in the family.