Stop blaming teachers for your child’s behaviour

[Woolfatthedoor]

I’m so fed up of my partner return home from school exhausted and mentally drained due to the appalling behaviour of some of their year six pupils.
Heaven forbid they are reprimanded. Then a slurry of emails accusing the teacher of ‘shouting’ at their innocent kids.
My Partner and several colleagues are at the point ot resigning.
They are experienced teachers who love teaching yet these kids make teaching intolerable.
If feels like these kids are not set any boundaries at home therefore come to school with a degree of arrogance.
Parents don’t seem to take any accountability for their children’s behaviour siding with them against the teacher who just wants to teach the rest of the class.

I think Yr6 is the year that some kids get 'too big for their boots' being the top dogs /oldest in the school and can need some strict boundaries/occasional punishment to bring them back down to earth! I think schools should have clear, fair, consistently enforced rules and parents should be expected to back them up (home/school agreement?) Does your husband's school have a clear behaviour policy? He should be supported by senior management if parents make unreasonable complaints. There will always be parents who don't want to believe their little darling can do any wrong but the school should back their teachers and be clear to parents and pupils what the behavioural expectations are.

Indeed, and I've allowed that in my post. However the experience of lockdown itself differs widely, and it would be interesting to see the depth of association of multiple correlative factors - though of course necessarily hampered by time elapsed and the limitations of self-reporting.

The reason being that there are choices about what to do next and that to a large extent depends on the causes. Is it lockdown and lack of social contact causing developmental damage and the response is "this is permanent and irreparable damage, you are reaping what you sowed", or is it parenting, or is it the continued encroachment of personal devices, or a combination and to what degree - the responses will be different depending on our understanding of the problem.

The difficulty that often happens is that schools very often don’t support a ND child and believe they are naughty and treat them as such, this leads to constant meltdowns at home which leads to mental illness all round, chaos all round, parents coming across as disengaged, then we are blamed.

I was told so often that support was needs led not diagnosis led, but in truth for many children, particularly those presenting as PDA, which is on the rise, there is no support. This is very frustrating and in these cases teacher/parent relationships can break down. Parents are seen as “those” parents - crappy neglectful parents rearing crappy ill mannered children, or we’re middle class mothers pushing for a diagnosis to allow us to lazily parent our rebel offspring. Teachers are seen as obstructive and gaslighting. In truth it’s really shit for everyone.

Anyone thinking SN should be taken out of the equation is missing a trick. Numbers are going up, whatever the cause, and schools either need to adapt better to this or become places where SN isn’t welcome. Even if there are things that aren’t genuine SN (lockdown lack of socialising for younger kids, iPad babies, things like that) still need a different approach than the current system that fits children into an ever growing restrictive environment with little to no flexibility which in turn means more and more children cannot behave, which affects their home life, so parents try to get a better approach for the child, and on it goes.

The answer is surely to look at what’s going on, and make changes based on the findings. I don’t think we have anyone in charge capable of doing this though.

100% this

This country also has the problem of not really valuing education in its broadest sense.

My son is just starting out as a teacher and people are really surprised when so tell them. I get the impression that people only value, STEM careers, medicine, law, business, finance. It's understandable (people don't see how anyone outside these areas will ever be able to afford to live independently)but nevertheless very depressing.

What I find fascinating is how fulfilling he is finding his work and he is having a huge positive impact on the kids and I feel that's literature future as a country.

It's weird that we don't value teachers more.

Literally not literature!

Also many schools are cutting back on support staff when they are needed more than ever.

This generation has been permanently damaged both mentally and physically by adults who asked for lockdowns.
Now you will have to face the long term consequences.
Id substitute lockdowns for screens and gentle parenting. And I’m guilty of allowing both to get out of hand. Lockdown didn’t cause everything that’s wrong nowadays

You say you work in MH/SEN but you have never come across the sharp elbowed trying to squeeze an advantage for their child? Every school I know has some experience of this and the frustration of having to dilute resources intended for children with actual needs.

For example are you really not aware of the relative numbers of SEN pupils in the private sector (much lower than state) versus the numbers of pupils in the private sector claiming and being awarded extra time/help in exams for SEN (much higher than state)?

Whatever the system there will always be the sharp elbowed who are taking a chunk of the support intended for those with actual needs. This isn't new, pretending it doesn't exist simply makes it easier for the support to be exploited to the loss of those with actual needs.

I really valued state education until DD2's experience of state secondary school. I was on the PTA of the primary school for five years and DH was a governor for ten. We are both professionals who did well at school ourselves. DD1 went to a super-selective state grammar. DH's mum was a teacher.

Yes I agree. This is why I quit teaching. It's not even the behaviour - I can deal with that in appropriate ways but the abuse and kickback off the parents was awful. Every single day, emails and phonecalls.
Classic example : asked child to hang back for 5 minutes during lunch after some disruptive behaviour. Have a great chat, they explain their behaviour, plan to move forward, feel much better thanks miss, can I have my lunch with you and help you tidy the classroom? Yes of course, then out to play.
Email that evening: child says you kept them in detention and didn't let them eat with their friends. Complaint to head about me.
Stuff like this all the time. Weekly. The parents are extremely defensive and see it as 'them and us', that anything we do is a personal attack on their child. Possibly from their own experience at school.
The amount of time I spent in phonecalls before and after school explaining/justify things to parents was crazy. All I was doing was trying to support their children.

I certainly never set out to be "one of those parents". But I had to become one to advocate for DD2 and for ourselves as we were constantly painted as feckless and not bothered to get her to school or anxious about Covid when nothing could be further from the truth. We were trying to work with the school but the system requires schools to be in opposition to parents and threaten fines and court action. They just made everything so much worse than it needed to have been.

I totally agree with this. You see and hear it all the time - questioning why kids learn certain things that "they'll never need" and quite a utilitarian approach to education as a holding pen and something to be endured until work and the "real world." There seems to be no conception that everything they're learning is something that some kids will use later in their working lives, some to extraordinary effect - and if they're not exposed to it at school, then where?

My eldest in particular has some incredibly engaging, engaged, ambitious teachers at his secondary. I'm so incredibly grateful for them and that they're using their energy and skills to give these kids the best chance in their adult lives. Well done your boy.

Its two separate issues though.

1. difficulties getting assessments and then if applicable a statement of needs for any child (but especially girls who don't conform to the default male symptoms)

2. sharp elbowed parents trying to exploit a system to support children in (1)

The second category makes life even harder for the first and is real.

Very true.

FYI pupils can only get extra time if the school submit a reasonable adjustment request that meets strict JCQ requirements. So it's up to schools + exam boards not "sharp elbowed parents". The actual tragedy is that more state schools don't apply for reasonable adjustments, they are failing their SEN kids. Independent schools aren't taking any resource away from kids in state schools.

It's interesting, I'm gritting my teeth through the last few years at the leafy, oversubscribed primary both my kids have gone through but I'm basically evangelical about DS1's comp with a much more challenging intake. The huge difference feels like the personality and approaches of the heads and leadership teams - the primary feels like it's in a slow decline as teachers become increasingly stressed and miserable, the good ones leave, and the cycle continues. Teachers I loved when they taught my eldest I'm gritting my teeth and just getting through the year now.

It feels like so much of the variation isn't just the students at a school, but also the leadership.

So you haven't tried and you have absolutely no idea but claim that "not every claimed case of SEN is genuine. Some parents are just lazy, too busy and/or entitled."

So by your logic, parents who endure years of exhausting struggle and fight with the system as it's impossible to get an assessment otherwise - those parents are at the same time "lazy, too busy and entitled".

Perfect reasoning! 👏

You don't need a formal statement of needs or a medical letter to gain the extra time (or you never used to). If the school is willing to make the case and file the request for extra time/help due to a permanent or temporary need then its likely to be granted.

It wouldn't surprise me if state school applications are on the light side but that doesn't explain the sheer size of the gap.

I didn't say independent schools are taking SEN resources from children in state schools, I was illustrating the reality that many heads report with parents trying to exploit a system designed for children with actual needs.

Actually the evidence you need for a RA request is dependent on the type of adjustment you are requesting. I work for an exam board so am completely aware of what is needed.
Your statement of "Whatever the system there will always be the sharp elbowed who are taking a chunk of the support intended for those with actual needs" straight after a claim about applications for RAs certainly implied that independent schools + sharp elbowed parents were taking resources away from SEN kids in state schools.

Interestingly enough, there are more self-reporting surveys and analysis gathered during lockdowns, plenty here https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=lockdown+impact+on+children&oq= but I'm personally more interested in longitudinal research. I doubt much will be forthcoming though, it's all funded by grants and the gov is not interested and private health companies see no money in this.

There are sensitive periods for particular developmental "tasks" so different cohorts have been affected in slightly different ways. I know of many cases where parents never removed masks when talking to babies - this causes massive speech delay. I don't blame the parents, they were doing more or less that they were told to do and thought they were protecting their children.

My DC school made children wash their hands repeatedly and in a very persistent and stressful way, with agressive sanitisers - many developed skin conditions and OCD as a result. Skin can heal relatively fast if not autoimmune, but OCD is a different matter, it usually keeps bouncing back in various "disguised" forms. Again, I don't blame the school.

I could go on but it's probably boring.

The post had three distinct paragraphs making three different points. If I'd wanted to link the last two points I would have merged the paragraphs.

I'm aware the evidence is related to the type of adjustment but there are a sizeable number of situations where the school/parents provide the evidence with no need for formal statement or medical evidence. Two of my DC and other family members have had needs requiring adjustments and each time I've been surprised at the lack of requirement for third party evidence. The temporary conditions were probably the most open (or at least local heads report the most parental lobbying on temporary conditions).

Don’t be so bloody ridiculous - you can’t keep blaming lockdowns for the country’s problems 🙄

I taught Y6 for years - it’s become much much worse. This is a ludicrous argument - accept the bad behaviour because they’re working on their SATs? That’s not an excuse for the feral behaviour. Most of it is unbelievably piss poor parenting sadly.

Our school had "no screens" policy and kept encouraging parents not to give children smartphones or anything for that matter. I don't know a single classmate who had a smartphone.

They organised full time online school in the first week of the lockdown so my DC for example went from zero screen time to 9-1 non-stop screen time just to continue education. The result? Constant headaches in a previously 100% healthy child.

Who is to blame, I wonder 🤷‍♀️

It's all on the schools this rubbish.

Tell the parents to fuck off when they complain about the consequences of their shit parenting. If they don't like it they can home school or send the child to another school that will put up with them.

Stop being so weak.