Is this the end of Latin in state schools?

[Edmontine]

Depressing news:

The Guardian

Worrisome as I wonder what next.

Latin in state schools is already dead as far as I'm concerned. The article says it was funding Latin in 40 state schools, assuming this is secondary only that amounts to around 1% of state schools in the UK.

My opinion is Latin at GCSE doesn't open many doors and any funding would be better used on propping up the sciences (as science teachers are difficult to recruit) or towards vocational subjects for those who aren't as academically strong.

I don’t think it’s just state schools. A relative of mine, HOD in a Latin and classics department at a private school, was given notice last academic year that they were going to let students in Y10 and 12 finish their courses, but would then be closing the department, so he won’t have a job come September.

They are making cut backs and decided this was one area that could do (two full time teachers).

It’s a useless subject anyway so not really a surprise. They used to pretend to kids over 30 years ago it was helpful if you wanted to do law, that was bullshit then and even more so now.

DD does Latin at her state grammar. No signs of it going away as it's quite popular. She hates it but is actually quite good at it.

As a historian I wish I’d done Latin. But I think it’s a real niche in state schools now. Neither of the grammars that my DDs went to did Latin.

It was rare in state schools when I was looking back in the early eighties.

It is sad. Latin is the core of so many languages, is part of our history. It's very good for the brain, tenses, patterns etc.

The way we going we will be left with only STEM. Great for one of my DDs, not so for the other.

If you argue there is no point in Latin, what about other marginal languages, art, music.

My kids state school does Latin. Just a normal comprehensive high school. It’s more popular than music. Good for history or linguistics.

They're not abolishing the GCSE.

They're abolishing the excellenceprogramme, which funded Latin teachers in c40 state schools that were not offering Latin before.

So those that did anyway (mainly grammar schools) and all private schools will be unaffected.

I do think that this should have been announced with a better lead-in time, so that pupils who have already started on GCSE and A level courses can compete them.

@ThatsNotMyTeen My DS studied some Latin when he was doing his History degree as it was very useful. I feel sure that it's still useful to have a background knowledge of Latin when studying Law too as often the language used hasn't caught up with the 21st Century.

Good for history or linguistics but not essential.

I loved Latin at school but paying for a small number of schools to offer Latin doesn’t seem like a hugely good way of spending DfE money during a funding crisis.

It’s Labour treating children badly again. Women, children, old people, who knows what’s going to happen to disabled people.

The fact they’ve stopped the initiative mid year is almost unbelievable.

My opinion is Latin at GCSE doesn't open many doors

Really struggling to comprehend what you mean? I mean, it’s a GCSE - so a gateway that may simply offer awareness, or may mean going on to more advanced study. Either way, any knowledge at all of Latin’s existence is a bonus for all the familiar reasons.

The cash won’t be diverted to helping recruit stem staff. Another proposal is that academy’s can’t deviate from pay scales. I kind of think maybe some academy’s were paying extra to say physics graduates because of the shortage of physics teachers.

I suspect the bigger problem was academy trusts taking advantage of staff.

i disagree. People see private schools as ‘luxury’ because many do offer this. Many private schools offer Ancient Greek and classics as well. Unless state schools start to offer the same breath of opportunities of subjects then private schools will always been seen as luxury/elite. there is no reason why the take up of ancient languages should be different depending on what type of school you go to.
I didn’t particularly enjoy Latin at school but honestly there is something wonderful that the syllabus has not changed in about 60 years. Every child pretty much learns from the same book (if only Caecillius would have known he would be famous thousands of years after he died). I can’t think of any other subject where that is the case.

When my DM came to England in the mid-20th century she felt confident in approaching her professional training because she was not unfamiliar with Latin. She was boundlessly grateful that she’d been taught it in a country school on the other side of the Atlantic.

Thirty years later an A in O’Level Latin meant I was entirely relaxed about the tracts of Latin I encountered generally during my Law degree. And the knowledge of Roman social and political life I’d gained was a real stimulus for the study of Jurisprudence - and for my dissertation. (Yes, of course I could have managed perfectly well without that knowledge - but it was one significant thing I didn’t have to worry about.) Later on I was able to pass my learning on to the next generation - which was both a bonding experience and of specific educational benefit.

It obviously informs my understanding of Western culture and the workings of the State every day of my life.

If we could pay for it I’d agree. And I’d rather they just reversed Hunt’s last two NI cuts and put a bit on income tax but they’ve backed themselves into a corner on that.

Borrowing money to pay for <0.2% of secondary school pupils to study Latin makes no sense. It isn’t doing anything to make private schools less elite. If you want to do that make it part of the NC.

And many private schools are dropping it anyway. Partly due to budget issues.

There's nothing stopping pupils studying it as a hobby.

So only rich people can study Latin? No child can teach themselves it.

Perhaps you are right though, perhaps it is time state schools need to start offering paid for subjects. Core subjects get offered by the state but other, less popular ones parents have to pay for.

They are also closing computer hubs and reducing language programmes

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/labour-scraps-computing-hubs-with-languages-scheme-scaled-back/

There are few, if any private schools dropping Latin. Well that’s not quite true, the private schools forced closure because of the VAT on education debacle, means all their subjects are dropped and mid GCSE study stopped, which may include Latin.

By ending the scheme, Labour further entrench the divide between private and state education. This is what they intend after all. State school pupils lose out - was that promised? It’s a cultural decision, like the VAT on education (and we all know that will raise Zero for state schools).

Labour’s move restricts the study of classics to ‘the privileged’. Their decision to cut Latin programme mid-year, like adding VAT on Education, is a blatant betrayal of the principles the Labour Party of old, stood for.

Labour of today, are being proven as liars and hypocrites, again.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/jan/12/state-school-pupils-in-england-may-have-to-drop-gsce-latin-after-funding-pulled

But that’s unfair. Only wealthier parents could pay. What about the others?