How's the Private School VAT increase impacting you?

[mumsthewordi]

To private fee paying ...are kids/s still in private ? Are you comfortably still able to afford and happy paying it ?

To state, how do you feel? Have you been impacted by more kids in class or would you expect that to play out this year? Or perhaps you weren't supportive ?
Do you think state schools will improve ?

Full disclosure
A struggling fee paying parent of one kid only other is at state and my oh is an amazing secondary school teacher - we are a divided household indeed at time, but we've made choices best for us.

If the State interferes but then does not act proportionally; well it is all very obvious what is going on, is it not?

Labour wants private schools sector to contract by forcing loads to go bust, but they are still desperate for those private school kids to pay VAT, so in reality they want to force them to join other private schools and pay VAT. They want those private school class sizes to get bigger and those families to pay up. At the same time, they want the redundant teachers from the original private closing schools to enter the state sector to teach there. That has been the plan all along clearly. But to illegally not offer those same kids a real choice of going state after the school went bust - amoral, and illegal possibly.
Those private kids don’t want to pay fees plus VAT for bigger class sizes and the State is trying to force their hands. In a supposedly civilised Western democracy, Remember Phillipson’s comments online that these are not the kids they care about? They are just numbers to be squeezed.

Do you know that this isn't happening, or are you speculating?

It isn't happening and yes i do know!

You work in education for a council where a private school has just closed?

I have access to the stories and experiences of 1000s of parents on a daily basis. What we know is happening:

• parents withdraw kids/schools announce closures
• parents contact LAs to be told 0 places OR "we can't tell you until you apply 6 weeks prior to needing a place"
• parents + kids put under massive stress not knowing if there will be a place
• 4-6 weeks prior to needing the place the applications are put into LAs
• LAs coming back to say no place so on waiting lists/place in schools at such a distance that taxis (at cost to LA) are needed
• A small % of parents are getting a smooth transition but these are in the minority. There is NO plan for transition, FOI requests have shown that LAs did not receive any briefing from Labour about this and how it might impact/plans that should be put into place

FYI 6 closures now been confirmed since 1st Jan, this is the start of the same thing as happened in Greece which ultimately forced Greece to abandon the policy

Yes this doesn't happen - school notifies parents, parents have to apply to new school. Parent can choose whether that's a different private school or state, but it isn't automatic. Not all private school pupils are eligible for a state school place. Parents would have to consent to the pupil information being passed to the LA, they'd have to work out which local authority was responsible for each child etc.

Kids in care don't go on waiting lists. They are given a school place, regardless of whether the school is oversubscribed or not.

Good point.

AFAIK state schools don’t close suddenly - proposals are drawn up and consulted upon, and plans are drawn up to ensure all children are found places at new schools. Often schools are merged so presumably most/all pupils would be offered a place in the merged school, though some simply close completely. Either way, the LA ensures a planned transition over a long time period and I think finds local places for all with as little disruption as possible (ie keeping kids from same school together).

While the announcements of independent schools closures have seemingly come out of the blue I think generally the schools aren’t closing with immediate effect (though I’m aware that this has happened to some indies in the past). So there would be time for the LA to coordinate provision of state places for those who want them, and to ensure additional places are provided as per with state schools.

But in contrast with state schools don’t closures it seems the LAs just shrug and say “use the usual application process for in-year transfers but you’ll have to get what you’re given which may be miles away and you can whistle if you think we’ll pay for transport.” Or “we have no places at all, you’re on your own” and leaving people to use Fair Access protocol with kids receiving no schooling in the meantime.

Bit of a two-tier system, with only one group of children deemed worthy of LA assistance.

Unless of course someone has evidence that LA’s are assisting all children of closing schools in the same way, @tortoise18….?

Do you know it IS happening or are you just speculating?

It is hardly surprising that LAs have had no real guidance or extra funding for this half way through a school year? Just like HMRC is not ready.

@tortoise18 - dislikes my anecdotes but when I spoke to my neighbour yesterday she also said she has not yet been billed for this term’s fees which is very unusual. I don’t know if her school will back bill for VAT next term, no idea. I assume they have had to change all their billing processes last minute.

Labour have come in with a crazy policy and no plan and schools are really struggling to come to terms with the new laws, what it all even means etc. HMRC is not ready, neither are the LAS but as long as Phillipson got her kick…

In addition, the Telegraph is running a story stating a well known tax adviser thinks boarding schools should claim an exemption afforded to hotels who only pay 4% VAT for long term stays. Luxury hotel goers pay less VAT than school kids?
I never understood why they even got away with VAT on boarding as it is welfare and state boarding is exempt and I was surprised the court case did not include that element. Seems entirely atypical.

It’s different because children who go to - or - went to, private schools, are not Our children. We only look after Our children.

Admittedly we don’t do that very well (unless they go to our grammar schools) but still, fck Your children. We couldn’t care less about Your children.

Not me, thankfully, but in a small circle of friends, there are 3 who can no longer afford fees due to the VAT increase, they have cut their expenditure year after year to afford fees. None of them are able to get their children into local schools, apparently the state schools are over subscribed, proving there are several students stuck in limbo.

Untrustworthy?
Lol. OK, just because I can't publish facts demanded of me that aren't yet in public domain. OK
Search back through all my posts, I think I've been pretty consistent.

I posted earlier in the thread that I spoke to a bursar for an independent school who says her network of bursars are all up in arms because they have little guidance from HMRC on implementation. HMRC says contact the government but the government don’t know because the legislation is not yet finalised. It had its second reading in November. The gov.uk website merely lists the current laws and proposed revisions. Why would you bring in a policy before the legislation is in place? It will be very difficult to word this legislation in a way that does not leave it open to years of legal challenges.

You make a good point that I missed @twistyizzy - even though it’s known that schools will be closing at the end of the summer term and places will be needed for September, the LA refuses to engage or accept applications now for September places. This would clearly be the most sensible approach as it gives the LA some time to plan too. But instead the LA stonewalls the families until the summer and then shrugs and says “we don’t have any places”.

As PP notes, these aren’t “Our” children accordingly to Bridget so it’s perfectly acceptable to chuck them under a bus in this way.

Yep, acceptable collateral damage.

You tried to minimise it at first.

You liar.

I said it was "a ridiculous bit of comms" and "the whole thing is fucking stupid" and "hopeless on a number of levels". Doesn't sound like defending or minimising it.

What I also did was wonder what it had to do with a discussion of VAT on private school fees. Or maybe the "minimising" it bit was pushing back on the ludicrous idea that Keir Starmer signs off on every Labour TikTok. But even then, I said "holistically they're responsible for it because they hired an idiot and someone with more seniority (not the party leader) should have stopped it going out."

As I said: untrustworthy.

Must have rattled you

To say something that endorses punching women in the vagina "hopeless" or "ridiculous" minimises it. Especially in context of the rape gangs which it ran alongside.
Call me all the names you want, they don't affect me but you did minimise it