How's the Private School VAT increase impacting you?

[mumsthewordi]

To private fee paying ...are kids/s still in private ? Are you comfortably still able to afford and happy paying it ?

To state, how do you feel? Have you been impacted by more kids in class or would you expect that to play out this year? Or perhaps you weren't supportive ?
Do you think state schools will improve ?

Full disclosure
A struggling fee paying parent of one kid only other is at state and my oh is an amazing secondary school teacher - we are a divided household indeed at time, but we've made choices best for us.

Depends. 1 of them was a faith school so I imagine not unless there was another local indy faith school of the same denomination which is unlikely

We're lucky we've only got a year left. If our children were younger they would be going state with lots of top ups through tutoring, extra curricular etc.

For those saying 'haven't seen any impact' frankly you won't have yet. Fees are paid a term in advance and one terms notice is required so I expect parents are limping until the summer and you'll see the start of the impact from September. I'm expecting to see that less children are sitting entrance exams etc, it will take a few years before we see that this has actually cost the state money, many people moaning that they can't get their children into a school as the catchments shrunk, people saying that tutoring has go through the roof and all the 'levelling' up that top unis are doing is now irrelevant because those pesky parents are going state and 'cheating' the system, I could go on...

Lastly it's interesting that whenever policy affects children from poorer backgrounds it's all 'oh but those poor children, think of them, it's not faiiiiir' yet when other children are being made to move schools from their friends etc there almost a gleeful response. It's disgusting actually.

I live in the London Borough of Southwark where some state primary schools have closed because families on the average wage can't afford to live there anymore, and are moving out. My daughter goes to sixth form in Lewisham and says she hasn't noticed anyone new around.

As pp have said there's a huge demographic shift happening in London because of the cost of living, so although state schools are performing well there are less children enrolling. If parents are considering moving their kids from private to state, there are plenty of places available.

But London isn't the whole of the UK and not all areas have capacity yet.

@LittleRedRidingHoody - and I have spoken to a couple of parents who have said they'll just increase their own fees to cover the costs.

In day fees of £20k means 4k a year VAT, boarding you're looking at least £35k so £7k per child. That's not just a buffer. I agree with you regarding the big schools like Eton, Marlborough etc but it's all the others that will be more affected,

where a hike of just 20% would leave me needing to pull him out.

20% is a big hike, not “just” 20%.

When we decided several years ago to send both the kids to private secondary, we looked at long term fee rise trends and budgeted for them to be around 5% pa. We considered it affordable on that basis. Actual rises have been 0%-10% until recent months, so within our expectations on average.

Those rises will still happen going forwards, so the 20% this year will be 25%-27% on the original baseline next year etc

We haven’t got too many years to go, so we will manage, but we probably wouldn’t start them now in private, with 7 years of fees for each. We also have increased mortgages and utility bills post Trussonomics, so it’s not “just” an additional £8-£10k pa for the two kids, it’s other costs too.

FWIW, I’m ok with the VAT being added - not least because Labour won an election with this in their manifesto. But it’s unreasonable to airily imply this is a trivial amount to find.

Well that's why I said I was just a tiny bit less anxious. Every small bit of additional public funding is helpful. It is irrational to discount smaller sums. Where else do big sums come from, except the aggregation of smaller sums?

I live in a city with a massive percentage of children attending private. My kids are at state school and I've seen no impact at all. No changes in either of my children's classes and no parents I know with children in private doing anything differently. To be honest, the catchment I'm in is mostly split between 'private is so expensive it's never a thought' and '£4K is nothing to consider' so the kids are split the same way. It doesn't matter to anyone I know.

Well it will be even less of that little red square now. The initial 1.5 billion projected was prior to exemptions, prior to the amount being claimed back from schools, prior to some being able to pre-pay all fees so they will never pay VAT, prior to 13 schools closing and prior to 10K fewer kids in Indy schools from Sept 24.
The realistic sum is now 0.5 billion. So two thirds less than initially projected. In accounting terms that is less than a rounding error.

We moved one child private to state at year 7 to avoid the fee increase + vat and the other one will likely move to state for A levels.
There is a waiting list here to get into state secondaries for years 7,8,9 and 10.
DC1's BF just moving to state this term - halfway through year 10 due to vat increase. For the children effected it's very real.

My children are in state schools so I am not affected but those I know who are applying to take their children out f private have been told there are no places in years 8 and 9 in state schools. They are very concerned. The local private primaey school has 4 children in reception this year so I don't think they will last much longer. Which is a shame as they sponsor the local rugby club and do a lot in our community. Not to mention the disruption to the children, the job losses and the lack of choice for families now.

I wonder if some of this is a reflection of falling birth rates and fewer Russian boarders.

I think the big reduction will be staggered over two years with families moving to state at natural transition points.

We know several families who would prviously have used private schools who are moving to grammar school areas, high performing comprehenive catchments or getting religion. Since they are rich enough to buy in exactly the right areas, their children will bump other less affluent/ organised families down the waiting lists.

It’s highly unlikely there’ll be an immediate effect on state school numbers - it’ll take time for some to feel the pinch and for others in the future to not choose private. The policy was only possible due to Brexit (it is against European legislation to tax educational activities for U18s). I do think it’s an own goal but, again, time will tell. What I am really concerned about is we have a govt that financially gives me no more confidence than I had in the Truss equivalent and seemingly less integrity than the previous govt (the Chancellor lied on her fricking CV before we even touch on the dicey policy decisions - in the private sector she’d be out!!!).

You didn’t notice the massive increase in the cost of University then?

A quick look at fees and even the most modest of them (a Catholic prep school) charges £6,500 (pre VAT) per term for day pupils. The big senior school is £15k a term for day pupils and £18k for boarders.

Yes but we aren't talking about university.

You've looked at all indy schools in the UK in such a short period of time to come to that conclusion? There are some small indy schools charging 5K-7K per year!
15K per term is not an 'average' indy school, that's the top end of the spectrum.

It has us because we receive a bursary. We weren't sure if they'd add the VAT on for us, but of course they have.

Also didn't release they'd be adding the VAT to extra curricular activities too.

I have been waiting for the influx of applications from all the parents who contacted us after the election demanding to know what we were going to offer their child.... they haven't come.

We had a lot of enquiries and our Secondary Schools are mostly full - as a council we had a contingency for all the displaced children leaving private school because they couldn't afford it. We haven't needed to use it.

I have worked in School Admissions for a London Borough for nearly 20 years. Every year I hear from parents who were 'forced private' because we didn't offer a place. What they mean is, we didn't give them the school they felt they deserve because they bought a big house in a leafy suburb. We have enough places for every child in the borough.

We are seeing the same now with the VAT thing. We're 'forcing' parents to work more or cut back on extra curriculars because we can't guarantee a place in the nice middle class school they want. We can offer a place, and yes if you ask what school has space in Y9 we will tell you that they are all full - but we have a duty to educate children in our borough and places will be created somewhere, it just may not be your first choice.

What we're seeing in press and forums like this is not translating to reality across School Admissions Teams we speak to.

It is also worth noting that we have closed a school this academic year and reduced the capacity of others from September so schools closing may have more to do with falling rolls in general.

No, I looked at private schools local to me, which is what is relevant to my previous comment.

But you understand that isn't representative of all indy schools across the UK?

I do not think that is a fair comparison. Student loan repayments are completely different to school fee payments.

My point was many of us have had to suck up thousands of pounds of fees due to changes in policy.

What I find fascinating on these threads is the divide between posters who see the imposition of VAT on private education as a good way to boost spending on state education, AND those posters who seem to be motivated largely by anger/envy/bitterness that some children have had access to a better education than that provided by the state.

I have some sympathy with the former (although I think the government figures are nonsense)

but I think the policy is largely driven by the latter.

In that they are your children’s responsibility or that the cost is spread?

Most parents who are higher earners will contribute maintenance to their children at university. Presently that’s roughly £10k a year and at many universities barely covers room/board.