The councils need to find spaces for all children!!

[HooverIsAlwaysBroken]

https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/surrey-runs-out-of-state-school-places-for-private-pupils-as-vat-raid-bites/?amp

I am relieved to see that the Surrey is also looking at options to expand class sizes and use transportation to take children to other areas. They really need to get their act together quickly.

all children has a right to state education.

Honestly please think before you write utter rubbish.

Right back atcha, sweet pea 😀

Pleasant dreams 😘

Oh well, if the anonymous poster who can offer no source or evidence at all 'said it', it definitely must be true.

Private school my DC went to was teaching in portacabins too 🤷‍♀️ Permanently. Still does. And I paid for that as they deliver excellent results, portacabins or not.
What a shock this must be to you.

Yes, it's usually quite obvious even on the internet who is rather unstable and who is sensible.

They have no incentive to lie either. You don't get paid for a post or two.

@Ubertomusic the children I'm referring to had no teaching at all for 4 months. Nothing. Just left at home. The portacabins they're in have no resources. No science labs, no D&T, no food tech, no art and design... I could go on. But it's not a race to the bottom. I'm just trying to point out that the state education system is a mess. Funds have got to come from somewhere. I know the VAT on private school fees has been hotly debated on MN (and I usually don't comment). I actually hope that the anger the ex-private school parents have can be channelled for some good... to make change... I've been banging the drum for our state kids for years and no one listens.

If private schools are going to get a huge VAT refund this year what money is going to pay for all the things Labour says this policy is going to fund?

This is precisely the lie that Labour have sold people: state schools need money (true) so the way to get this money is to VAT private schools (false, complete and utter lie).

This VAT money has been fictitiously spent many times over. 6500 teachers. Breakfast clubs. School counsellors. The VAT money (if any is raised after sending £5m to Eton etc and bulging the numbers in state schools) isn't going to sort out your school's portacabin situation. In fact, it isn't going to sort anything out at all. It's a big fat lie.

The way to get money is to add 1p onto the 40% tax band. Honest, straightforward, transparent, would actually raise money, wouldn't be seen as unfair, would be hitting a large number of people who could afford it. But instead, Labour are being dishonest, underhand, hitting small pockets of people/sectors very hard (private schools, farmers, employer NI for some) and being underhand by either freezing allowances or decreasing banding. I haven't been hit. I am not going to be paying VAT. No personal interest whatsoever. My DS has left school thank God. But this VAT policy is a straight up deception. No country in Europe does this. We are well out of step and this ought to be a red flag.

@JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn this excerpt from the article linked on page 1.
A government spokesman defended the policy, stating: “Ending tax breaks for private schools will raise £1.8bn a year by 2029-30 to help fund public services. Local authorities are responsible for securing enough school places, and we are confident the state sector can handle any additional pupils.”
so for the next 4-5 years there will be no noticeable money raised and equally for the next 4-5 years there will be more students with no additional resources.
and 4-5 years of slowly bubbling anger and frustration. they are building a powder keg.

this policy will blow up at some point and the students who will be the most affected will be the ones who need stability and education the most.

there is always money for pet projects and the government really should have sorted the child sen/mh challenges first. taken the "empty" schools and classrooms and repurposed them, training and hiring educational child psych's.
getting all that need testing and formal diagnoses diagnosed.

What a bizarre post. You’re home educating your child and not working to ‘avoid’ paying tax? Well when you buy something you pay VAT so have you stopped buying things too? Have you stopped putting fuel in the car? Stopped paying council tax?
You’ve affected your pension and now don’t have an income.
I bet you take money from the government though, child benefit? UC as you’re no longer working?
But you carry on - you’ve really shown them!

The way to get money is to add 1p onto the 40% tax band. Honest, straightforward, transparent, would actually raise money, wouldn't be seen as unfair, would be hitting a large number of people who could afford it. But instead, Labour are being dishonest, underhand, hitting small pockets of people/sectors very hard (private schools, farmers, employer NI for some) and being underhand by either freezing allowances or decreasing banding. I haven't been hit. I am not going to be paying VAT. No personal interest whatsoever. My DS has left school thank God. But this VAT policy is a straight up deception. No country in Europe does this. We are well out of step and this ought to be a red flag.

the Tories froze the income tax bands. People on higher incomes already pay a lot of tax, why should it be more. If you compare us to Europe it’s the lower and middle earners who pay less tax here.

Imo the people paying 40% tax will not be happy being asked to pay more. There is only so much you can squeeze from this group many of whom are struggling to have anywhere near a decent life style despite working hard and earning well.

We are at a tipping point, too many people contributing nothing and taking benefits (in some cases, quite a lot) and too many being asked to give more and more for less and less.

The council has an obligation to find a school for all children. If this means they have to pay ££££ in transport etc evidently that is acceptable. Whitehall is full of highly educated civil servants, I'm sure when they make policy they deep dive into all the implications and consequences to ensure it will deliver what is wanted. Or maybe they don't .......

What a mess, why are we surprised?!
it is true that Surrey had a high % of indp school children, so as a country, this will be an even bigger problem. Round here the primary children are sent to school miles away, so sad.

Imo the people paying 40% tax will not be happy being asked to pay more.

I don’t want to pay more.

https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-taxes-explained/income-tax-explained

It is not really that simple Tristar. I expect the poster has done calculations.

there are two points where your marginal tax rate goes to 60% or 70%. This is where you suddenly (my understanding) become ineligible for certain benefits/tax credits. It makes sense to stay below those lines, either by putting a huge amount in your pension or by reducing your hours.

i saw another chart somewhere- but have not been able to find it - which shows that up until a certain income (maybe £45?) you get more out of the system than you pay in (healthcare, defence, roads, etc). When you have multiple children in state schools, obviously you get more out.

With regards to the VAT, a lot of people using the private schools were making a lot of money but also paying a huge amount of tax and getting no benefit (chart is marginal tax only). Unless you are extremely wealthy that means long hours, lots of stress etc.

By reducing your income massively (part time, putting all you can in your pension), you suddenly get eligible for a lot of benefits such as child benefit, tax credits etc. You also get a lot more time with your children which is lovely 😀.

there is an initial frustration that you worked so hard, paid so much tax and then had to pay additional tax in the form of VAT. When you relax, move to a place where the state schools are better, reduce you work massively, top up with tutors as required the children are still ok.

By reducing your income massively (part time, putting all you can in your pension), you suddenly get eligible for a lot of benefits such as child benefit, tax credits etc. You also get a lot more time with your children which is lovely

As someone with a household income of 6 figures & still gets some child benefit the idea of giving up my job to qualify for more child benefit (which isn’t very much) & tax credits is ludicrous. I always wouldn’t sell my mortgaged house & rent to qualify for housing benefit….

When you relax, move to a place where the state schools are better, reduce you work massively, top up with tutors as required the children are still ok

I live in an area with good state schools but housing is ££££ so tax credits aren’t going to help me much.

I do think child benefit should be universal though & remember when VAT increase to 20% was supposed to be temporary.

@Radishknot just look at tax paid, childcare, tax credits etc and make a thorough analysis. Also look at what your partner earns. I was in your situation and I realised that I needed to look at the whole picture (for both myself and my partner) and carefully balance all outgoing costs, tax paid, etc and come up with a balance for us.

we had a nanny for a while - in addition to the Indy schools (I know, huge expense with the nanny tax, NI etc). But looking at what we save on childcare, looking at what we save on schools, looking at joint income, me going part time and also adding to our pensions as a part of this (reduces your income) actually makes a lot of sense.

as a family, we used to be a massive net contributor to the tax system, now we get more out than we pay in I think. For us, we have found a very good balance and I am so much more relaxed.

maybe you already have a perfect mix - but really do your research. The outcome may surprise you when you look at the overall picture.

Even if I didn’t work the only benefit would be some CB & that’s only because the threshold has increased and in a few yrs we will be over that threshold. DH already pays the maximum into his pension. We don’t have much childcare as I’m p/t and DH is hybrid plus dc are older primary age & we both get good holidays. I understand how to be tax efficient (it’s part of my job) and we definitely wouldn’t be better off on benefits as I said. Plus we wouldn’t be able to pay our hefty mortgage!

As long as you did your analysis - so many don’t. Good for you for being part time, it is wonderful to spend time with the children isn’t it?

I need a balance tbh 😁. I work 8am - 2.30 pm with a day off, I could work longer as dc are often doing school stuff until 4:30 but I like time without them! Same for the holidays.

I have looked at private & not ruled it out but tbh even before VAT 40k a yr was not something I was going to fund by cutting back on a holiday or 2 & would have be a serous commitment.

I suspect it won’t in the long term - most private schools, at least near me, are heavily oversubscribed. Even if 25% of current parents are priced out, there will be richer parents of kids who did less well in the entrance exam ready and willing to take up a place instead.

Bear in mind school fees have gone up by between 25-50% over the past decade anyway - yes middle class parents have been priced out, but they were priced out long before VAT came in (two kids would cost £56k per year around here - not many people have that amount of cash spare). Schools obviously feel there are enough rich parents to fill their places that they don’t need to worry about attracting dentists’ and accountants’ kids.

I don't think you know what SPITE means.

The one thing it will never do is raise any meaningful amount of tax, even according to Labour’s own calculations.

If they wanted to raise tax they should have put a penny on additional and higher rate income tax, and/or additional stamp duty on £1m plus homes (parents at our primary quite commonly move into the tiny secondary catchment and spend £1-£2.5m on houses there, state lates for their kids’ education and no extra tax for them!). Either of these could have raised significant amounts of tax.

But Labour instead chose not to do this, and instead pursue a policy that will raise enough to pay for one third of an extra teacher per state school.

Why do you think that might be…?

🤔

A government spokesman defended the policy, stating: “Ending tax breaks for private schools will raise £1.8bn a year by 2029-30 to help fund public services.

That's actually quite funny. Now that they're having to face real consequences which are actually happening now - rather than the fun of imagining future utopias - they are finally noticing that the new tax will cost more than it brings in (as we've been saying) so they're changing the story.

Of course it won't bring in any money during this term of government. Didn't you realise? But vote for us again, and for sure it will then...

They could still choose not to implement it, and limit the worst of the damage, but they won't do anything that sensible.

And then there will be another excuse in 6 years time for why it still doesn't bring in any money. Hopefully they won't be in power by then anyway.