Business rates on private schools

[liverpudcounsel]

Lots of threads on VAT on private schools, which I don’t have a strong opinion on.

I have not seen much information or views on business rates, which has come up on the budget today; new legislation to remove their business rates relief from April 2025 which means loss of charitable status for private schools.

Anyone know much more specifically about this? Just curious. Along with the employer VAT increases, and VAT on fees is this budget going to blow a hole in the finances of these schools?

I mean a general 'you', not specifically 'you'. I should have said 'people'.
The policies will seem unfair to those used to having the benefits of it. 🫣

I'm trying to clarify what points some posters think they're making.
I'm also finding it quite funny when posters, such as you, feel that you are superior enough to actually tell others how they should debate.

No only approx 10 000 of the 100,000+ have EHCPs. The rest don't. Please don't comment if you literally have no clue about the situation

I think everyone understands that you don't want rich kids to have an advantage over poor children. Of course in an ideal world everyone would be able to access an education that meets their needs. Sadly we are absolutely nowhere near this scenario, especially when it comes to children with SEN. There is limited money and limited resources to go round.

So in the actual real world where we know this is the case, why on earth do we want more SEN kids that are currently being educated privately brought into the state system? Who benefits from this? The poor SEN kids will just see what resource and money is available stretched over yet more children all fighting for their share. Realistically the kids that have come from private schools will often have parents that are better equipped at fighting the system and ensuring their children's needs are met by the state than those growing up in poverty and deprivation. We know this happens as time and again studies show that children that grow up in poverty do far worse than their privileged peers even when they go to exactly the same school and theoretically have the same access to the resources the school provides.

So the poor SEN kids will still be worse off then the rich SEN kids but will see what resources there are stretched further and therefore will be worse off.

The rich kids will be worse off as state provision as probably worse than private provision.

The parents will get to pocket the money they would have spent on private school fees whilst the state is left with a hefty bill funding all these expensive SEN kids through school.

How is this better? Bang on all you want about equality but this isn't a practical way to achieve this and just means everyone is worse off.

Stop telling people they have no clue just because it doesn't fit your narrative!

They obviously don't have a clue because what they are saying is factually incorrect. I know Labour aren't bothered about facts and accuracy but that's part of the issue
If someone states that all kids in Indy schools have EHCPs when only 10% of them do then that needs correcting because it is factually incorrect and shows that the poster has no knowledge of the issue.
I understand Labour lied and that's maybe what confuses people but still

@twistyizzy then you correct the facts, but don’t tell people that they cannot comment.

That's fair enough and I take that but I am sick to the back teeth of people making things up/parroting Labour when Labour have downright lied on numerous occasions and continue to hide/massage the figures.

Stop assuming you're the only one who has the correct facts and opinion. You've been doing it throughout. It's tedious.

You know that other folk might also be sick of entitled private school patents who cannot cope with losing a tiny part of their privilege? 🫣

I would estimate that no more than 6% of my village use the village pub. Every time I look in there it's the same 20 or 30 people.

That poster said said ‘private SEN schools’. They didn’t say all (including mainstream) independent schools. Most (and certainly more than 10,000) in independent special schools have their placement funded via EHCPs.

Which is why there need to be more incentives to encourage people back into hospitality venues.

Because I have. I have been involved with this for over 18 months as well as being a parent with a child in Indy school. I have thorough knowledge of ASI, EDSK, IFS + OBR reports, the stats for indy schools across the UK and the legislation as it stands in UK + Europe.

So you are happy to offer incentives to village pub which only 6% use because you see the benefit of it but yet you feel an education sector which educates 7-10% of all kids should be taxed more heavily? Pubs deserve taxpayer subsidies to encourage peoole to use them yet schools which take £0 from the taxpayer and help ease pressure on the state deserve to be penalised?

Is that always how you try to shut down opposing views?
It's interesting you're picking up on me apparently having an agenda, when really I'm just pointing out the incredulous sense of entitlement from some private school parents.

I have no issue with private education establishments, as long as they are taxed like the businesses they are. Currently they are not.
I have also explained why the hospitality industry currently needs support, there* *is no reason to assume this will be a permanent approach however.
Anecdotes regarding the number of people accessing one hospitality venue isn't really meaningful either, I presume you know that.

*Private school.

So when only 6% use a village pub, we should use incentives to encourage people to visit (we should encourage people to drink more alcohol?. But when the same number use an education system which is, on the whole, performing well and where children thrive, we should use the tax system to disincentivise and punish? We should prioritise encouraging drinking alcohol over a decent education through our tax system?

Independent school

The one village pub anecdote isn't really relevant.

A business being taxed as a business isn't that being punished or disincentivised, it's just not receiving any sort of special treatment.

Surely you must know the difference between independent MS, independent SS and NMSS then? And that the pp was talking about independent SS.

According to the Independent Schools Council, there are 103,000 children with SEN at independent schools which they represent of whom 7,000 (6.8%) have an EHCP:

https://www.isc.co.uk/schools/sub-pages/send/#:~:text=103%2C000%20pupils%20at%20our%20schools,and%20Care%20(EHC)%20Plans.

However the ISC represents only 1,400 independent schools out of a total of 2,600 apparently.

According to a recent government report:
“In independent schools, including independent special schools, 5.7% of pupils have an EHC plan and 16.7% have SEN support”

I can’t easily drill into the underlying figures on my phone but it seems almost 3/4 of independently educated kids with SEN do not have an EHCP, and only 1/4 do.

https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/special-educational-needs-in-england

Again, indy schools are already taxed and pay VAT. This is a tax on parents