Business rates on private schools

[liverpudcounsel]

Lots of threads on VAT on private schools, which I don’t have a strong opinion on.

I have not seen much information or views on business rates, which has come up on the budget today; new legislation to remove their business rates relief from April 2025 which means loss of charitable status for private schools.

Anyone know much more specifically about this? Just curious. Along with the employer VAT increases, and VAT on fees is this budget going to blow a hole in the finances of these schools?

Because I was talking about mainstream indy schools, not specialist because you can't access specialist without an EHCP whereas you can access SEN support without an EHCP in mainstream indy schools

The poster you replied to was talking about ‘private SEN schools’, not mainstream independent schools.

There are some independent SS who accept self funders without an EHCP.

@twistyizzy And I was clearly taking about specialist SEN schools hence saying private SEN schools where admission criteria includes having an EHCP.

I am surprised an ex teacher isn’t able to comprehend my very simple statement when everyone else has managed.

The semantics don’t matter… the reality is there are SEN children being thrown under a bus because they don’t have an ECHP which names an independent school and their parents are paying the fees. Some of these were previously in state schools that failed them so to argue (as some have done on here) that their parents don’t care about SEN in the state sector is frankly disgraceful.

@Boohoo76 Absolutely. And there are SEN children without an EHCP being failed in state schools whose parents can’t afford independent school fees. Let’s remember parents of SEN children are more likely to not work, more likely to be single parents, more likely to be in debt, all as a result of managing the child’s needs. Do these children not matter?

The fact is independent education is a privilege that many cannot afford and as such it should be taxed as such.

I don’t see anyone up in arms about the fact that VAT is charged on private therapies, assessments etc. for SEN children and has been for many years. It seems SEN children only matter when the wealthy parents want to justify them paying less for private education. Or why are they not campaigning for better SEN provision in state education to benefit all SEN children instead of removing VAT from private schools that only benefits the select few?

You really have no idea. Aside from the fact that the VAT policy isn’t going to raise much (if any) money to fund the state system, it’s going to push some children with SEN back into a very overburdened state system. How is that helping anyone?

And how do you know that the parents of independent school children with SEN aren’t also campaigning for better SEN provision in state schools? The two are not mutually exclusive. Many of us educate our DC in both systems. And many took their DC out of the state system when it failed them.

A progressive tax system doesn’t tax on privilege, it taxes on affordability. Why on earth do you think it is reasonable for an independent school parent who earns less than a parent using a state school, to pay towards educating the DC of that state school parent? I firmly believe that more money should be put into state education (why wouldn’t I, I have a DC that’s educated in a state school) but it should be done via income tax based on a person’s income.

CatchingBabies · Today 11:59
** Absolutely. And there are SEN children without an EHCP being failed in state schools whose parents can’t afford independent school fees. Let’s remember parents of SEN children are more likely to not work, more likely to be single parents, more likely to be in debt, all as a result of managing the child’s needs. Do these children not matter?
The fact is independent education is a privilege that many cannot afford and as such it should be taxed as such.
I don’t see anyone up in arms about the fact that VAT is charged on private therapies, assessments etc. for SEN children and has been for many years. It seems SEN children only matter when the wealthy parents want to justify them paying less for private education. Or why are they not campaigning for better SEN provision in state education to benefit all SEN children instead of removing VAT from private schools that only benefits the select few?

I think this a bit rich coming from someone who had their fees paid in full by the LA.

The fact is that for families who will no longer be able to afford private education, it is a necessity.

1 in 3 children in private schools are from the middle and bottom two socioeconomic quintiles. Expenditure on fee remissions, of which they are beneficiaries, more or less matches the money the government claims it will receive in taxation. The wealthier families who use private schools (and 40% of the wealthiest 1% of the population use state schools) can insulate themselves almost entirely from a fee increase by refusing to support the poorest users of private schools.

If the posh rich private school family vs poor state school family narrative is taken at face value, the policy makes no sense. In reality, it is frankly insane.

Yes the LA paid my sons fees in full as there was absolutely no other option available for his level of need. It wasn’t a choice. If you make the choice to privately educate your child then you pay for that choice. I’m not against private education at all but pretending it’s a charity is just silly.

You are unbelievable. There are many private school parents “choosing” that education so that their DC is on an equal footing with state school children who don’t have SEN, don’t suffer from anxiety, school refusal etc. They have been badly let down by the state system and quite frankly are doing the taxpayer a huge favour by saving the state a massive amount of money.

And to add there is an independent school near me that I loved for my DC which has 25% of pupils with SEN. Many of those are kids that were failed by the state system. There is nothing elitist about it, the exam results are not amazing and the sports facilities are not as good as my DC’s state school or my other DC’s indie but it is full of pupils who are happy and supported. This VAT policy is going to have a huge impact on that school and may destroy it (which is why I chose a larger indie for my DC). Who are you, as someone who got a suitable school for their DC free of charge, to start telling people that they should be paying more to fund schools that they are not even using? Why don’t you pay more?

Wow so you resent others who are paying for what you got for free? You are happy to take full payment for your child from the taxpayer yet you think people who take nothing from the taxpayer should pay more?

It needs to happen, and in a couple of years the market will have adjusted and this will be old news - except there will be a new revenue stream. Harsh but true that there will be people every year who thought they could afford private but can't. I didn't hear quite as much handwringing when the state sector had to find a way to do more with less?

Penalising independent parents has no bearing on state funding. Whether we pay VAT or not has zero impact on state funding per pupil.
It doesn't have to happen because it doesn't happen anywhere else in Europe as a matter of principle. Many foreign countries outside of Europe also offer tax relief as they realise that indy schools relieve the burden on the state.

People are not paying for what I got for free. My son went to a specialist EHCP only SEN school. You can’t just pay to go there as it’s only for the most disabled children. Secondly I got nothing for free, my son got the education he was legally entitled to. It was absolutely no way shape or form equal to what state school children get but as his needs are so severe it was the only option.

You cannot compare severely disabled children with children with low level SEN that don’t have EHCP’s etc. My son as an adult is costing the tax payer £3000 a week in specialist care yet that doesn’t mean every adult should get £3000 a week to spend on a choice. That’s the different choice vs necessity.

Of course it has an impact. More tax paid means more money available to fund state schools. In fact the budget announced increased funding for state schools. So this money has to come from somewhere.

Ah so you actually believe Labour? IFS is even on record now saying it won't bring any money in.
If 10% leave indy for state then the net income from VAT is £0

Ah so you actually believe Labour? IFS is even on record now saying it won't bring any money in.
If 10% leave indy for state then the net income from VAT is £0

Humm I’m not sure I agree . I think the removal of winter fuel payment is unfair - not had it / parents deceased- no impact on me . Increasing bus fares is unfair and worrying on a climate change level - none run through my village , not routinely used since I was in sixth form . I’m a relatively new private school parent - 18 months - eldest DC is mid twenties - mostly a state school parent really and DC 2 will apparently benefit in his lovely state school - still think it’s unfair

I don’t believe that 10% will leave the private sector for one but I will wait to be proven right or wrong on that one. The vast majority have gone private for a reason, an extra percentage on what is already a massive cost isn’t going to change that for most in my opinion.

Secondly I believe Labour more than the bloody Tory’s who have created this problem in the first place. Who have underfunded schools and SEN education to such a level that parents are forced to go independent. The solution to that is improve state schools not to lower the cost of independent schools.

I am sure you will disagree as nothing says Tory voter more than moaning that provision given to a severely disabled child isn’t fair to children without that level of disability. I’m sorry that the government finally targeting the wealthy rather than the poor has upset you so much but this has been life for many many people for the last 10 years. Under the Tory’s we have created a country where we have more food banks than McDonald’s! That’s poverty, having to pay a bit more in private school fees is not.

Oh I see, you don’t give a shit about kids with “low level SEN”. It’s well reported that the SEN system is failing. Many of the kids that are being failed don’t have ECHP’s. They are legally entitled to an education but many are not getting one which is why we have such high rates of school absence. But that’s OK is it, because they are not as disabled as your DC?

"People would be foolish to think this will make any difference." says IFS Director on taxing education. This is ideology over economics, at the cost to children.

“Lower the cost of private schools.” What on earth we are you on about? No one has asked for the cost to be lowered.

And no one has said that your child didn’t deserve the education that they had. You are the one who couldn’t give a shit about the education of other children being harmed. Also, this is not a Labour Tory debate. The Lib Dem’s do not support this policy.

Here are some examples of children with SEN who are in the independent system. Why do you think it is OK for their education and health and wellbeing to be impacted?

“I am the legal guardian of an 8 year old boy (Child C) who was placed in my care by the Local Authority in 2019. He came to me with a background of trauma and has also recently been diagnosed with autistic spectrum disorder. He previously attended the local mainstream school but struggled due to anxiety, distractibility and sensory overload (needing ear defenders in class). His anxiety would continue late into the evening after school where he would worry about whether he was keeping up. His needs were not being met at his local mainstream school. The Local Authority, Somerset CC, in which his school is situated at it’s last inspection by Ofsted and the CQC in 2023 was found to have significant weaknesses in that there was “poor assessment and meeting of need caused by inconsistent practice, leading to poor outcomes for children and young people with SEND”.
Earlier this year I decided that Child C could no longer stay at his mainstream primary school. His anxiety levels were rising and given his traumatic background he needed a small nurturing environment in which to learn. I therefore moved him to a small prep school where he has settled well, is receiving extra tuition and is catching up. His anxiety has significantly reduced and he is now accessing the curriculum.
I run a small childcare business which makes c£25k per annum. Every last penny is spent on paying the private school fees. These are due to rise by 10% as a result of the imposition of VAT on private school fees. I will not be able to afford this. Moving Child C now would be traumatic for him.
I am grateful to Alexis Quinn for raising concerns about the imposition of VAT on private school fees. Like her, my story and that of Child C is of ordinary people seeking to provide an appropriate education for their children – many of whom are not able to access this in the broken SEN system in the state sector. I want to challenge the Government over this ill-thought out and harmful policy. My hope is that this case will not only benefit Child C but many other children who need access to independent education.

Parent B
I am joining this litigation as I believe the Government’s policy of imposing VAT on school fees is discriminatory and harmful to the welfare of children. I am the mother and sole carer of 3 children with special needs (aged 10 years old and twins aged 5 years old). They are all neurodivergent and academically able. The oldest, Child D, who will be bringing this case also has anxiety and a physical disability such that he needs daily physio and wears leg splints.
My son previously attended a mainstream primary school but was overwhelmed by the large class sizes and changes in staffing and class arrangements. In September 2021 I decided to move him to a small Christian school (60 pupils). With the small class sizes and individual attention he has improved significantly. He still has anxiety but is able to enjoy school and access the curriculum. He has also benefitted from the Christian values, ethos and foundation of the school. As a Christian family it is very important to us for the children to experience a continuity of their faith between home and school.
I previously worked as a social worker but am unable to work due to fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue. I manage to afford the fees through the use of disability benefits. The school has announced it will pass on the VAT cost in January and I will therefore be unable to afford the children’s education there. A sudden move in January will be very harmful to them all, and especially to Child D as, being in his last year of primary education, he would have to move twice within a 12 month period.
My lawyer (Sinclairslaw) is writing to the Government to urge them to abandon this ill-thought out policy. I am grateful to Alexis Quinn for raising her concerns and for those who have donated to this cause so far. I wish to pursue litigation following the Budget on 30th October but will do so anonymously for the wellbeing of my children. My hope is that this case will benefit not only my children, but all those who benefit from independent education in all its forms.

Alexis’ story
Alexis is the solo-parent two children aged 4 and 12 years old. She is from a working-class background: her mother served in the police and her father is an ex-veteran of the armed forces and was a prison officer. She works as a psychotherapist and as a manager of a small charity that seeks to eliminate the unnecessary use of restrictive practices in health, social care and education services.
Alexis’s 12 year old daughter, Addison, has dyspraxia, hypermobility and autism. She struggled to cope in a mainstream state school and so Alexis moved her to Rochester College, an independent school. Unable to afford the increased school fees due to the Government’s proposed VAT policy, Alexis threatened the Government with litigation. This has been widely reported in the media and has galvinised concerns about the harmful and ill-thought out effects of the policy.”

So let me get this straight. You have single handedly decided that your son's education and specialist care is a necessity whilst meeting the needs of children with milder SEN is optional and therefore a choice. How convenient!

You of course completely neglect the obvious which is that what is deemed a necessity or choice is completely and utterly subjective. Many people in the world view education as a luxury and there are hundreds of millions of children who don't go to school at all. Luckily as a country we believe that education is a necessity and we try to meet the needs of as many children (including your son) as possible. Sadly the overstretched system can't do this adequately so some parents feel forced into paying for private provision. You can see that as a 'choice' all you like but I imagine that if the government decided that your child should receive cheaper inadequate care you would do all you can to make sure that his needs were met. I'm sure if push came to shove you would fund whatever you could personally if you thought his needs weren't being met by the state. How would you then feel if people turned around to you and suggested you were choosing to pay for private care for your son and that you should be taxed to the hilt for doing this?

@Bumpitybumper

I'm sorry I could not disagree more. Your argument about necessity and choice being subjective is ridiculous. You were arguing with a mother who has raised a severely disabled child to adulthood. An adult who now cost the state £3k a week. Which, whilst I do not know this posters family, that level of support can only mean someone who requires complete support to exist. How you could ever suggest this level of support is anything other than necessity. ? It's crass and bordering on cruel !

Yes there ARE levels of disability. I'm sorry but if your child can't function sufficiently to cover their basic needs. Feed themselves, communicate, toilet themselves, move themselves around independently. Then they are most definitely in greater need of state support than your or anyone else's child who does not have these difficulties. A person with this level of abilities gets support out of necessity every time in order to exist.

To be as crass to argue that children unable to access SEND provision on the lower end of the disability needs scale is just a matter of 'perspective' is abhorrent.