Business rates on private schools

[liverpudcounsel]

Lots of threads on VAT on private schools, which I don’t have a strong opinion on.

I have not seen much information or views on business rates, which has come up on the budget today; new legislation to remove their business rates relief from April 2025 which means loss of charitable status for private schools.

Anyone know much more specifically about this? Just curious. Along with the employer VAT increases, and VAT on fees is this budget going to blow a hole in the finances of these schools?

I’m not involved in fighting VAT . I will pay it . I’m merely expressing my opinion on one of the Government policies I think are economically illiterate and unfair .

DH already pays a lot of income tax ( me not so much ) but I would rather pay more - than Labour pick on various minorities who aren’t their traditional voters to fix services which benefit everyone .

With the greatest of respect that’s incorrect - taxing education is only an option as we left the EU

By your own admission you seem to be missing the point quite a lot of the time.

If you want to try to win any arguments here you may do better to come up with some properly evidenced counter arguments. Stick to the top three layers in Graham’s Hierarchy of Disagreement.

Because there are decent counter arguments - I’ve seen plenty of others making them - but at the moment you’re rather just cluttering up this board with hot air, and it makes for a rather boring read.

Absolutely disgusting.

prep for vaping is more important than education. Only in the UK. Complete crap for brains this Govt. This govt wants people to ignore what is in front of them and pitch people against each other.

I give this govt 2-3 years tops

I give this govt 2-3 years tops

Bold statement, poster. What is it you think will bring down this government with a healthy majority well before the end of their parliamentary term?

My favourite from @wiesowarum is "private schools aren't being targeted, their privileged status is being lessened".

True if all forms of education paid for at the point of delivery were to be subjected to the same vindictiveness, and the cost of private education falls, but neither seems likely.

Lack of knowledge, lowest approval ratings amongst other things

What is the mechanism that leads to a change of government, though? Plenty of times Tory ratings were in the toilet (step forward, Truss/Kwarteng)

I would not be the least surprised if the opposing side starts to make movements and challenges to the current govt. I am just watching and waiting

Again, what is the mechanism? The Tories try to tempt Labour defectors? Make a pact with the Lib Dems (unlikely but vaguely possible.

I hope the opposition makes challenges, that is their job! And I voted Labour.

You’re asking me to give you insight into what the opposition are planning.
It stands to reason that if the current direction this govt is going in, they will not last long. The pound sliding, large amounts of people unhappy and the overall financial hits coming this way will not result in a happy public

I am not: I am asking what mechanism it is that you think can be used to bring down a government with a majority of 156.

Large amounts of financial hits happened in the last Tory government and that still lasted a full term and sunak called the election at a time of his choosing.

As you have cited no actual possible mechanism, I will assume you are simply muttering, “I’ll get you, my pretties!” for your own gratification.

You are deluded if you think that the past finanical hits are comparable to what is happening now and is going to happen within the next few years. I am allowed to make my observations in this space Gollum, as are you. Time will tell no doubt

If it were possible to oust a government for doing a pisspoor job and being wildly unpopular with the electorate - ie if there were actually a mechanism for doing so - do you not think the Tories would have been booted out long before July?

And I say that as someone who thinks the Tories are surpassed in their lamentable leadership only by the current Labour shit show. Who I fear we are stuck with for the next 4.75 years.

No that’s not what people are saying. They are saying rich SEN children are no more or less worthy - they are equally worthy as normal children. It’s not right that rich kids get all these advantages.
Rich children with SEN are not more worthy and deserving of a decent education than normal/poor SEN children. In fact you could argue that normal/poor SEN children are in so many ways at a disadvantage compared to rich SEN children and so are more deserving of a better education.
It would be fairer if the poorest children got the best education. Those rich enough to be able to afford private education are at a massive advantage in life already.

You are saying I’m alright Jack so I don’t care, but if my rich children have to have the same education as those in state they are being sacrificed at the altar (whereas those already in state aren’t).

Race.
To.
The.
Bottom.

Of course you are allowed to make your observations. I am simply observing you can’t back them up with practical options.

I will leave it there, as this is becoming increasingly pointless. TTFN.

lol replying to your quotes to me. Night

Honestly, why people are clapping like seals at the VAT policy is completely baffling.

It is so obviously just a distraction technique by Labour, and yet it’s working and people are falling for it- it’s embarrassing!

Why is anyone supporting this rather than being up in up in arms saying: “this is going to do nothing to help state educated SEN children or state educated children generally - where is your actual, funded plan for the massive and very necessary overhaul of the SEN system? How are we going to improve it so that all SEN children get the support they need and so that parents aren’t forced to turn to the private sector?!”

The reason is obvious, of course: because the supporters of this half-baked rubbish are positively slavering at the prospect of little [insert posh sounding name] being pulled from his privileged pedestal and made to slum it with everyone else. That’ll teach him!

👏

👏

👏

Agreed, it is going to be interesting when we read of tales of woe when their children struggle to get into their chosen grammars or state schools due to the catchment areas and when they have to deal with larger class sizes.
I am not a farmer and I feel for them rather than think oh goodies lots of crappy houses / flats will be built on their land.
Simply misplaced envy

@twistyizzy

The private SEN schools are not saving the LA money at all. These children have EHCP’s and the LA pays the private school fees as part of the EHCP. My, now adult son, went to an independent SEN school and the full fees were charged to the LA. So they were in fact costing the LA a huge sum of money.

The overwhelming majority of independently educated SEN kids do not have an EHCP and receive no Local Authority or other state funding.

I don’t know what it was like in your son’s day but now it is nigh on impossible to get an EHCP - it takes one to two years minimum and the system is now positively designed to make it difficult, to repeatedly reject EHCP applications and to force parents to appeal over and over again and ultimately go to court (where 85% are ultimately successful - so it’s not the case that parents are making hopeless EHCP applications). Councils collude in this process because it saves them money - a two year process means they have two fewer years of SEN support to fund.

This is what forces many parents of SEN kids, in desperation, to turn to the independent sector.

This article highlights what an absolute disgrace the system is.

https://amp.theguardian.com/education/2024/mar/24/hard-up-english-councils-ration-access-to-special-needs-tests

And Labour has not put forward any detailed, funded proposals to overhaul the system, meaning from January onwards their vindictive, utterly ineffectual policy will condemn many many more SEN children to the failing state provision.

If Labour (or their supporters) remotely gave a shit about SEN children then their first priority would be to improve the SEN support in state schools. But everyone has shown their true colours so we know that is not the case.

I teach in a relatively stable and successful private prep school and already redundancies and larger class sizes are a definite for Sept ‘25.

As it is we only get £5 per child per term and have no working ICT equipment. The food has also got much worse since I started. If it’s going to get worse I don’t know how much worse it can get tbh. It seems the only thing keeping it going at present is the fancy prospectuses and clever marketing & social media strategies.

Teachers have already taken a pay cut to pay their own TPS payments.

The only teachers clinging on will be those who have become so de-skilled by working in a private school where practice isn’t scrutinised, that they fear having to go out into the big bad world of state schools where teachers have to do more than print out worksheets and jump through parent hoops for a living.

Nope.
Privileged happy at the top.