Business rates on private schools

[liverpudcounsel]

Lots of threads on VAT on private schools, which I don’t have a strong opinion on.

I have not seen much information or views on business rates, which has come up on the budget today; new legislation to remove their business rates relief from April 2025 which means loss of charitable status for private schools.

Anyone know much more specifically about this? Just curious. Along with the employer VAT increases, and VAT on fees is this budget going to blow a hole in the finances of these schools?

The business rates reduction for various venues (pubs, restaurants, shops, gyms etc) is to reduce their costs and is targeted at allowing them to remain open. It isn’t just pubs.

www.gov.uk/apply-for-business-rate-relief/retail-discount

Such venues closing is part of the “death of the high street” issue and it is true that the character of villages and towns changes if shops and restaurants and pubs close.

IIRC, Labour is continuing relief previously provided by the Tories - since covid, brexit and the COL crisis (brexit relevant as harder to get casual staff since) impacted the sector greatly. It’s a huge employer across all the different strands.

They’ve said a business rate reduction will be permanent.

No, this is the business no longer receiving any special treatment regarding taxation. The parents are not being taxed, they're simply having to pay increased fees as a result of the businesses having increased costs. 🫣

Again, the previous poster said “private SEN schools”. Not all pupils with SEN in all independent schools which would include DC with SEN in independent MS.

The ISC statistics are not only looking at independent special schools. Which is what the pp was commenting on. The EHCP statistics show more than 25,000 in independent SS have EHCPs and more than 4,000 in NMSS do. You can see the government statistics here. You have to change the parameters to see numbers rather than percentages and to only look at independent and NMSS.

'Said'. It's as permanent as the make up of the labour party is permanent or as some other crisis happens or when they lose power.

For business rates yes but for VAT no, the 2 are being wrapped up together in 1 package.

Paying out of pocket for your child’s education, at the same time as funding a state school place they don’t use, is not entitlement FFS!
Entitlement is the sense that you deserve to grab other people’s money because you don’t want them to have it!

You are not being taxed directly.
The business is being taxed.

This is generally a choice though, a choice not open to many people.
If you choose to use private anything, because you want what you perceive as a better service, then you don't generally also get to opt out of paying tax.
Nobody is 'grabbing' someone else's money. 🫣

Yet to hear a single argument for VAT that holds any water.

For output VAT, the consumer, ie parents, are being taxed. For input VAT, the schools pay that.

What about private health care, private nurseries, private care homes and private universities?

"Our" children? What percentage of children are privately educated?

No for VAT we are being taxed, the school just collects the money. VAT will be on the invoices whereas obviously business rates won't be. Schools are the middlemen for VAT.

7% until 6th form and then it rises to 18%. Edinburgh is an outlier and 25% of kids are educated in Indy sector

You don’t understand how VAT works. The “business” collects it, the consumer pays it.

I understand how VAT works, thank you.
Do you understand that were also discussing business rates? 🫣

*Private Sector.

Isn't the title of this thread relating to 'Business rates'? Why are we suddenly only referring to VAT?

This is a fairly vague question.

I’ve read all the comments. You didn’t make a distinction between VAT and business rates when you made that comment, your mistake.

Several threads going so easy to get mixed up however Labour have just lumped the 2 together

Independent sector

Yet to hear one against it that's not motivated by entitlement. 🫣

Yes, we do understand we are talking about business rates as well as VAT. Your comment “You are not being taxed directly.
The business is being taxed” was in response to another poster’s comment mentioning both VAT and business rates.