Business rates on private schools

[liverpudcounsel]

Lots of threads on VAT on private schools, which I don’t have a strong opinion on.

I have not seen much information or views on business rates, which has come up on the budget today; new legislation to remove their business rates relief from April 2025 which means loss of charitable status for private schools.

Anyone know much more specifically about this? Just curious. Along with the employer VAT increases, and VAT on fees is this budget going to blow a hole in the finances of these schools?

This is off the scale entitled, you have to be on a wind up now.

Just taking your point and questioning it

I agree we should look at proper provision for SEND children. Driving schools which serve SEN children well into the ground with a harmful tax policy isn’t going to help with that though.

Absolutely. The arts and youth provision in this country is shaming. Doesn’t look like this is going to change in the future. There is so much focus on schools and exams but for those who aren’t naturally academic these out of school activities give them a tribe, and this can feedback into their schoolwork and behaviour.

Exactly! I just don't understand why people can't see this? SEN provision is currently patchy at best and at worst non existent. Why on earth are people hell bent on seeing kids with SEN put into an already overwhelmed and over stretched state system that is currently failing to serve the SEN pupils already on their books? Do people want to see even more children failed by the system?

Fix the system and then target the private schools of that's what you want to do. To do things the other way round is insane and incredibly harmful to the poor kids caught up in their ideology battle. They are actual real children that will see their educational prospects severely impacted just because of some perceived inequality that this policy won't help.

Oh come on. State funded private schools have more in common with non-council run academies than they do with British private schools.

SEN should be adequately provided in state schools.

No, that's not what you're doing at all.

Of course it should, no-one is saying it shouldn't. Targeting indy schools won't solve the SEN crisis in state and will actually add to it as kids leave indy schools. Take SEN up with your MP/Labour if you feel so strongly about it.
You seem to find it very difficult to accept common sense/factual views that differ from your own. Maybe you are used to living in an echo chamber?

I agree, but it isn’t. We need to improve that before we force even more SEN children into the state system. It will only make it worse for all children.

Yes it is

Your last line is good advice, for you.
Oh yes, and private schools aren't being targeted, their privileged status is being lessened.

Ok, it's what you think you're doing.

The small amount of SEN kids in private schools is a mere drop in the ocean of those not, despite what the private parents are peddling. Privileged SEN kids are a small fraction of total SEN kids.

No, they are being targeted

But it factually isn't and there is absolutely no plan to raise the kind of money we would need to achieve this. It's like me saying 'nobody should need to use a food bank' and demanding they all close before the people who actually need the food have been provided with a suitable alternative.

Idealistic aspirations are of absolutely no use to those who are tackling these issues in the here and now. We must facilitate pragmatic and sensible options for as many people as possible. These are real children with parents that just want the best for them. Surely you can understand that they don't want their kids thrown under your ideological bus?

So SEN kids in Indy schools are less worthy than those in state? Their wellbeing doesn't matter and it's fine to sacrifice them on the altar of your ideology? 100,000+ kids isn't a "few"

Of course this is true. The question is though, who does it serve to bring more SEN kids into an overstretched and failing state system?

The kids that can never afford to access private provision will see the already limited support stretched further. They will be worse off.

The kids at the private school will receive worse provision at a state school. They will be worse off.

So who wins? Perhaps those who are opposed to private schools will feel a smug sense of satisfaction but what about the actual SEN kids that stand to lose so much?

The SEN provision question is interesting- apparently around £10 billion is being spent of SEN education provision but everyone (on mumsnet) seems very unhappy with quality and quantity of provision- which raises the question of are we providing the right thing to the right people? Does spending more money help? Should councils be paying for transport to SEN schools (1.4 billion and rising for England alone, at the point of bankrupting some councils). What actually works and why has the level of need gone up so much? I don't have any solutions to offer, but like the NHS I suspect simply increasing the spend on current services won't change much (not least because of increased nat insurance contributions and minimum wage eating up budgets).

A lot of us have become more aware of the issues facing parents with children with SEN than we would have otherwise. On the whole I deal with the issues that impact my family , I’m sure lots of people are time starved and operating at the same level . Don’t assume the caring is disingenuous - it isn’t with all

i am also suspicious that there are many children in private schools with undiagnosed and unrecognised SEN . They’ve been moved because they needed to move out of state perhaps with no real understanding of the route cause of their issues

This is undoubtedly true. I have used a mix of private and state provision to educate my kids and have noticed that there were many more sensitive and 'unusual' kids proportionally in private schools. These kids cope in a small setting that can be tweaked easily but I suspect that it would be a very different story in a large state school. I really fear for these kids as I don't really know what will happen to them if they are forced to move. Their needs aren't so great that they are an obvious priority but they definitely would need quite a lot of extra support.

I am perhaps one of those people that PP have accused of convenient compassion for SEN kids. I would argue that I haven't really needed to worry about the SEN kids in private schools before because their needs were being met. Now that this is under threat and I know individual children that will be adversely impacted then I obviously feel called to action. These are children of friends and my child's classmates. I can name them and understand what this could mean at an individual level. It is personal and it matters a great deal to me that they aren't the victims of some crazy ideology.

If targeted means treated how they aleays should have been treated. 🫣

Nobody said that.

Yes, you often become aware of things which appear to further your argument.