Business rates on private schools

[liverpudcounsel]

Lots of threads on VAT on private schools, which I don’t have a strong opinion on.

I have not seen much information or views on business rates, which has come up on the budget today; new legislation to remove their business rates relief from April 2025 which means loss of charitable status for private schools.

Anyone know much more specifically about this? Just curious. Along with the employer VAT increases, and VAT on fees is this budget going to blow a hole in the finances of these schools?

You said “Private schools should be treated like the businesses they are. The fact that some might struggle to do that isn't justification to give them special treatment.”

Where is the justification for giving the retail and hospitality favourable treatment, but treating schools educating our children more harshly? No one with even an iota of common sense could argue that pubs should have a more favourable tax treatment than schools educating our children.

No. But nothing you have written proves yours. Obviously.

I didn't say SEN kids were irrelevant, do do not misquote me or conclude anything about me from your misquote.
I stated that some private parents are suddenly seeing how jumping on SEN 'themes' might further their argument. 🫣

Read through the multiple threads written by disgruntled private parents.

Presumably ecomonic reasons - hospitality and retail still isn't anywhere close to recovering from the Covid annihilation or the current COL crisis, nevermind the impact of Brexit.
Your cannot accuse others of having no common sense simply for not sharing your view. 🫣

It was the first article that came up when I googled. I’m not wasting my Saturday morning searching for previously read articles and studies on this. You are welcome to spend your morning searching for ones that say private children do better!

I'm just reading through your points in this thread and can see how you have frequently misunderstood people or been misunderstood throughout. It's an interesting approach.

No you're alright. I don't feel the need to prove or disprove anything.

Although I thought private schools gave an unfair advantage to privileged pupils?? That's what Bridget P argues. If state is better then what's the issue?

Because a pub staying open benefits a much broader cross section of society. You can dislike that all you like, but it performs a much broader social function than a school educating <6 per cent of children born in the UK.

Well said

So we can give hospitality favourable treatment, but we shouldn’t give schools favourable treatment even if it means that some will be driven to the wall, causing children to have no school place and making staff redundant? The government have admitted the policy will cause some schools to close.

I think this policy proves just how spiteful and economically illiterate proponents of this policy are. We are prioritising pubs over the education of our children. We will be the laughing stock of the world.

Unfortunately due to the employers NI rise I think hospitality is stuffed anyway. That's Labour for you! Raising standards in everything they touch!

Your approach is even more interesting.
Misquoting and misinterpreting.

A pub has a greater social benefit than schools serving children well? The schools which are likely to fold as a result of this policy are likely to be the smaller, cheaper schools which often have a high number of SEN children which the state has failed. But, yes, let’s plough money into the village pub and Michelin star restaurants and leave schools to fail.

Well yes. To be fair, business rate relief is unlikely to come to the rescue of many of these businesses, who have now been clobbered with a huge hike in staff costs.

Yes, we can.
You can disagree with that, if it affects your privilege, of course.

The schools serve a much smaller demographic, you have to realise that?

This is such a weak and obviously flawed argument. There are loads of organisations and charities that directly benefit a very small proportion of our population but that doesn't mean that they are unimportant or don't deliver a great amount of benefit to broader to society. We need to consider the size of the impact organisations and businesses have on the individuals they serve too.

Less than 0.5% of the UK's population is homeless and it arguably isn't a cross section of society. Does this mean that organisations that help homeless people are less important than a pub? What about medical organisations that are relevant to a small percentage of the population? Does it matter that these organisations, like private schools, can be transformational to the individuals involved and lead to a positive impact on society? I would argue it does and it is incredibly narrow minded to ignore this.

I am happy to say that I’d prioritise the education of any child over me being able to go to the local for a quick drink. Any civilised society should be putting education ahead of being able to grab a pint.

It won’t affect my children. They are staying exactly where they are. It will, however, affect many of their friends and other children who are currently very happy and thriving,

The fact remains that the policy raises very little, if any, money. There would be an argument for the tax change if it raised a meaningful amount of money. It doesn’t.

The size of an organisation or % it benefits is irrelevant. Do you feel the same about small charities or groups which help other minorities?
That they shouldn't exist because they don't help everyone?
An organisation is only worthwhile if it can be accessed by everyone?

Because the similar level of attainment isn’t due to similar ability. Private school children bag a better university or course but then don’t do as well and perhaps a state school student with As or even Bs might have achieved a higher grade, but didn’t get on the course.

Hummm I was never a fan of universities ‘lower offers for state children’ but this little exchange has made me think they have a point. Thanks for that.

Maybe you should stand at the next election, otherwise your choice here is as irrelevant as mine.

We should be looking at proper provision for SEND children, not arguing about whether pubs matter. They are completely different.

We also need the arts and youth provision…

They often don’t. Because of the bursary situation, private schools serve a wide demographic. Children come from all backgrounds, even if many won’t admit that. The local private school closing would affect more people than the local pub closing. Neither should be closing though. We should help both sectors survive. Driving any business or organisation into the ground through poor policy is never a good thing.

No problem! Although obviously you are basing your view on the opinion of complete strangers on mumsnet which is possibly not the best source...but that's the way of the world these days!