Business rates on private schools

[liverpudcounsel]

Lots of threads on VAT on private schools, which I don’t have a strong opinion on.

I have not seen much information or views on business rates, which has come up on the budget today; new legislation to remove their business rates relief from April 2025 which means loss of charitable status for private schools.

Anyone know much more specifically about this? Just curious. Along with the employer VAT increases, and VAT on fees is this budget going to blow a hole in the finances of these schools?

I was replying originally to a PP who said that private school kids do well at Alevels but struggle at university. I still have no idea on what evidence that claim was based and as I said, I'm sure they struggle no more or less than their state counterparts.

Anecdotal stories however interesting don't really clear things up either.

I'm not referring to VAT.
I'm referring to Business Rates.

DId anyone say it did?

Did I suggest it did?

Maybe you need to realise I wasn't referring to VAT. 🫣

I quote one @wiesowarum

"Many private school parents are using SEN kids to further their argument for private education in general. SEN support should be available to ALL."

I think your arguing style is odd by the way. It doesn't seem to take into account any previous posts.

I think there is some truth in pp assertion (based on a few things other than just my UG time).

If you've read any of the multiple posts on private schools recently you will see that many disgruntled parents are usubg SEN as fodder for their argument, whilst caring very little about the needs of SEN children, their families or their teachers.

How do you know they don't care? Have you evidence that they don't care?

How are you funded? Do you get charitable donations as well as school fees? Who pays the school fees - parents or the state?

It's a bit odd that very few of them ever ontributed to the multiple posts relating to difficulties in accessing adequate SEN education, yet suddenly they all care when it can be used as leverage to further their particular argument. 😬

Yes of course it should . State education should be properly funded - if it had been I would not have needed to move my youngest child into private . The others are or have been exclusively educated in state .

It is going to take way more than a few pounds from the private sector to fix state schools .

Labour will fart about for a few years trying to make the private sector the scapegoat and state schools won’t improve significantly . Eventually some one might come along and raise income tax for all and fund education properly .

Finland hasn’t banned private education. What it has banned is the ability of schools to charge for the basic element of education; that element of education is funded by the state (a sensible idea).

With Norway, you are referring to almost 20 years ago. In any case, they weren’t banned, they were restricted. Religious private schools, and schools like Montessori, were allowed. There are some state subsidies for private schools.

Germany :
“The right to establish privately-maintained schools is guaranteed by the Basic Law (Grundgesetz, Art. 7, paragraph 4) and, to some extent, by provisions in the constitutions of the individual Länder. This freedom to establish privately-maintained schools is associated with an entitlement to state subsidies and a guarantee of the privately-maintained school as an institution. Thus, constitutional law rules out a state monopoly of education.”
Private schools are state subsidised.

https://eurydice.eacea.ec.europa.eu/national-education-systems/germany/organisation-private-education

Belgium also state subsidises private schools.

Which countries have banned private education? The only examples you’ve given so far are incorrect. Private schools are not banned in those countries. They’re actually state subsidised (and are not subject to VAT).

I don't have an SEN child so no reason for me to frequent SEN board but some of DDs friends have SEN in her indy school so I know they will be the hardest hit by this policy. The 2 things aren't mutually exclusive.

Oh, I know that a massive overhaul is needed in state SEN provision, and that SEN provision in private is a lifesaver for man SEN pupils and parents, I just didn't think it was nice to see how many private school parents suddenly only cared about SEN provision when it might further their own cause.

Many business do not pay full business rates. The budget this week confirmed that business rate relief will continue, albeit at a different rate, for leisure, retail and hospitality. A pub will have more favourable business rates than schools.

My point stands.
Of course it doesn't apply to every private parent, but a significant number are suddenly interested in SEN to further their argument. It's blatantly obvious.

I'm not sure what your point is here?

I doubt that. That's just your own personal assessment. Just like your own personal assessment about private school children struggling at university. No actual evidence. Just opinion.

You are entitled to hold a different view, obviously, but none of what you've written disproves my point.

Many of those parents have children with no diagnosed SEN, who manage in a private setting with small classes very well. They would often not manage in a large state setting and may well have to seek diagnoses and additional help if they are forced to move.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/nov/05/top-state-school-pupils-get-better-degrees-than-those-from-private-schools

“In both Russell and non-Russell group universities, students from independent schools were less likely to achieve either a first class degree or at least an upper second class degree than students from comprehensive schools with similar prior attainment.”

That doesn't mean that SEN kids are therefore irrelevant to the argument. I would have thought they were extremely important. You have a cold outlook on this.

You are talking about A* pupils? I'm not sure that proves that private kids "struggle".more at uni.

I'm not sure what point you think you're making here either?