Business rates on private schools

[liverpudcounsel]

Lots of threads on VAT on private schools, which I don’t have a strong opinion on.

I have not seen much information or views on business rates, which has come up on the budget today; new legislation to remove their business rates relief from April 2025 which means loss of charitable status for private schools.

Anyone know much more specifically about this? Just curious. Along with the employer VAT increases, and VAT on fees is this budget going to blow a hole in the finances of these schools?

Well we can be fairly sure about the last part of your post in that Labour are generally never right!

Which “countries” ban private schools?

Many private school parents are using SEN kids to further their argument for private education in general. SEN support should be available to ALL.

Really?
What's that based on?
Anyone can struggle.

Well what was the original statement I was replying to based on?

No country bans private schools. Many provide tax relief for parents using them as they recognise that indy schools relieve the burden on the state. Don't let facts cloud your belief though

It's a tax on the business which is passed on to the users, just like any business tax potentially is.
Are you trying to make yourself look clever here, because it's not working. Stop assuming superiority in your comments.

You realise the state SEN provision is in crisis and that's what leads many parents to choose indy schools in the first place?

Absolutely not! And I don’t think that I said that at all (but it’s a few days ago).
My own child had outstanding teaching throughout his time in state school. As did I (with a few exceptions exceptions).
What I meant was, I teach a lot of children in the independent sector who have been moved there because their needs are not being met in their state schools NOT because their teachers are poor but because their classes are too big and their environments are too busy to cope with. Quite often, their needs are not extreme enough to qualify for significant adjustments, but they are too extreme for them to truly flourish. Quite often their parents are at the end of their tethers, and calculate that they can rustle up enough money to get that child through one, two or three years of private education, just to get them through a challenging stage in their education.
The whole picture is far more complex and nuanced than state v. private.

Didn't realise posting facts made me superior.
I ask again, Labour are turning UK into only country in Europe that taxes education. Are Labour right and rest of Europe wrong?

VAT is not a “tax on the business”. There is a very big difference. It’s a tax which the paying customer pays. A business charging VAT is not paying the tax. It merely collects it on behalf on the HMRC. It’s not being “clever”, it’s the legal reality. I’m not surprised that people don’t understand this though, because the Labour rantings suggest they don’t understand it either.

I'm fairly sure that the fact that private schools are reducing the burden on the state by educating (at no cost to the tax payer, mind) a large proportion of SEN kids doesn't prevent the state from educating SEN kids too!

Indy schools educating 100,000 kids with SEN doesn't stop the state supporting kids in state schools with SEN.

Maybe you need to understand what VAT is

. SEN support should be available to ALL.

Yes it should, but it isn’t. SEN provision is very much a postcode lottery, even down to the ability to obtain an ECHP.

SEN provision is in crisis. How is pushing more children with SEN from the independent sector into the already struggling state sector going to help?

Finland bans charging for school tuition and Norway had a ban on private schools until 2005. Looks like Germany and Belgium also have significant restrictions on private education.

Finland. Private school exist in name but are publicly funded so not the same as the UK.
The point I’m making is each country is free to do its own thing. We are not part of the EU anymore. We have a clear two tier schooling system in the UK and my view is that private education is a choice that very few can afford and that makes it a luxury product. What other countries do is up to them. Ditto here in the UK.
That said I don’t agree with the speed and vindictiveness of what is happening and hope the ISC are successful.

I have two kids who thrive in big schools with large classes. They enjoy the atmosphere and like to have lots of options socially. I have also encountered many kids that want and need the opposite. They find the noise and activity levels in big classes overwhelming and simply can't cope in large schools. It is literally horses for courses and I am always flabbergasted that some people can't understand this.

We should be aiming for as many kids as possible to be in school environments that suit them and facilitate their learning and growth into productive, happy and functioning members of society. If some parents are willing to fund their kids to go to private school then this means that these children are having their needs met in an appropriate setting and the government saves money. This is particularly true for those kids that become a 'problem' in large schools because they can't cope there. This can be incredibly resource hungry just to get them into school and to stop them disrupting everyone else. Why on earth is this preferable to their parents paying for their education?

Finally just because all kids can't access private schools then it makes absolutely no sense for those that can to be discouraged from doing so. Focus on fixing the broken state system rather than distracting everyone with the private system.

Norway has obviously seen the error of its ways. Anyway in Finland and Norway the very low population means they would have needed all their kids in the state schools to make them viable. This does not apply here.

Actually Finland, private schools get funding from the state and cannot charge fees to generate profit. They can charge fees but aren't allowed to profit from them ie they are non profit making.

I can clearly only speak from my experience, but during my time as an Undergraduate, I saw folk from all backgrounds struggle in different ways.

During a placement at a private school I was quite astonished to hear a teacher telling age 14(ish) what colour to write in or when to underline etc, and often wondered if they'd expect that at Uni! She almost just slipped the colour or instructions in as part of the sentence!

You do realise that you pointing out well established facts as if they're new isn't necessary?

Because people keep posting ridiculous things that shows they don't know a jot about the issue

You are posting in a way which implies these facts are news to people. They're not.

No, they don't.
They're posting information which doesn't follow your narrative.