How smart do you need to be to pass 11+

[Mumofgirls12341]

My 9 year old is in year 5 and preparing for 11+ and I was just wondering how smart does a child actually need to be in order to secure a place? We’re aiming at London super selectives Latymer, HBS and Woodford County Girls School.

DD has always been exceeding/greater depth since reception but I wouldn’t say she is exceptionally bright - does she have a decent shot? I have heard of people saying it’s almost impossible to get into these schools so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

The government might implement policies to redirect resources, such as funding and teaching staff, away from grammar schools. They could also consider making admissions less selective or enforcing a mixed intake. Additionally, there may be guidelines for university admissions to be less favorable for students from selective schools.

“Additionally, there may be guidelines for university admissions to be less favorable for students from selective schools.”

Our grammars are full of internationals as it is London based so they will just be losing themselves the future talented generation. They the Government really do not have as much power to socially engineer as you think. We the sharp elbows will always find a way through! One way or another.

And I am all for grammars allowing in more genuinely clever children from FSM households. That is a good thing! If they make it through despite adverse circumstances they are clearly very smart.

HBS number for this year is not on FOI yet and won't be for quite some time so this statistics is irrelevant.

The FOI states it very clear, it is this year number.

Even in London, the vast majority of children go to state schools. I believe that the vast majority of applicants to HBS or QEB also go to state schools. Hypothetically, a 25% increase in the number of applicants from independent schools could be offset by a much smaller percentage decrease in the number of applicants from state schools, and total applications could remain unchanged. And a small, e.g., 4%, increase in the overall number of applicants could cover a much larger percentage increase in the number of independent school applicants.

The way you describe your current grammar school sounds exactly like the private schools that the current government is attacking on.

Don't worry, the uni admissions are already less favourable to many selective grammars. This will only backfire as uni graduates will be more PC but less brainy, this will in turn transpire into less productive economy etc etc. The decline caused by ticking diversity boxes above everything else is already very obvious in the US and it's inevitable here too. And I'm speaking as someone who could tick lots of boxes but never does this as it's not done on real merit.

@Ubertomusic
HBS number for this year is not on FOI yet and won't be for quite some time so this statistics is irrelevant.

@yousf
The FOI states it very clear, it is this year number.

Are you referring to the same thing when you write "this year"? The FOI reports the number of girls who sat the exam in Sep 2023 for Sep 2024 entry. AFAIK, the number of girls who sat in Sep 2024 for Sep 2025 entry is not yet available.

One might argue, hypothetically, that the slight increase in grammar school applicants is actually driven by state primary school students who initially wanted independent secondary schools. Therefore, there hasn't been a rise in applicants from independent school or even decrease.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/number_of_applicants_for_entry_s#incoming-2778486

My bad, it is actually decreased this year.

You clearly don't understand what you're talking about. This year's number would be 2025 entry, not 2024. The FOI request was answered in March where the number of this year's applicants were not yet known.

Why do you keep attacking the system you don't even understand in its very basics?

I was actually addressing your question about the maths.

If the number of applicants from independent schools increased dramatically, does that mean the applicants from the state sector decreased dramatically? The numbers don't seem to add up.

100 more independent school applicants might represent a 20% or 25% increase. 100 fewer state school applicants might represent a 4% or 5% decrease. Again, up to you whether these numbers are "dramatic".

So 2626 vs 2649 with the falling birth rate as your Guardian article says both for grammars and state applications is a decline. OK, fair enough.
Shall we calculate the proportion of the cohort? No we won't of course :)

You asked for a source, and I provided one. Feel free to come up with other anecdote to support your conclusions.

All of this hinges on the unproven assumption that the number of state school applicants has decrease.

From ONS:
In 2014, the number of live births in England and Wales decreased by 0.5% to 695,233, compared to 698,512 in 2013. There were 697,852 live births in England and Wales in 2015, a small increase of 0.4% compared with 695,233 in 2014

From whatdotheyknow website:
2024 entry - 2649 sat round 1
2025 entry - 2626 sat round 1

Looks like vat impact hasn't materially impacted the number of students sitting HBS which is surprising.

But your Guardian article claims the number of state school applicants has in fact decreased. Do you suggest that state primary pupils suddenly rushed to apply to grammars mostly and not to local comps? 🤔

Nobody cares how many sat. The question is whether the percentage of those who are ultimately successful would have otherwise gone private in previous years.

You clearly haven't read the articles properly. The drop in state school applicants is mainly for primary school admissions. The number of secondary school applicants remains in line with the past two years, which were at their peak.

For HBS, we need the number of girls in London and suburbs. Not all live births in England and Wales.
Then we can compare.
I was talking about the applications btw, not the number who actually sat the test. But never mind.

OK I'm re-reading it. First para: data from more than half of selective state schools suggests.

So it's not even full data? Why on earth are we discussing this?

Continue re-reading:

However, state school enrolments have also been falling because of the UK’s declining birthrate over the past decade.
The Department for Education (DfE) said there was a 2.3% fall in applications for primary places this September, and a 1.7% fall in secondary applications.

So I did actually read it properly first time - and no, it's not just about primary schools. Have YOU read the article properly? :)

I'm not surprised Guardian talks up Labour's shit policies - good old lefty MSM, true to itself and long-standing traditions 😁

You have an unproven claim about an increase in HBS numbers this year, and I provided a source that shows this is not the case. You asked for evidence on the decline in grammar school applicants this year, and I provided that as well. If you still think that 50% of the population is not a good sample, then I guess no point to argue. You will believe anything you want to believe.

Again, I was talking about applications and I know the number of applicants because my DD sat the test and lots of friends sat in previous years. I don't need Guardian or Telegraph or whatever to tell me anything about real life around me, I'm just living not reading or believing it :)

My DC are not and will not be in grammar so I don't have skin in this game, but if the stats are flawed they're flawed, that's all. Guardian is not the only media outlet that is more than happy to manipulate stats to feed the population a certain POV - Tory MSM do the same. I'm buying neither of them - I just look around and see what's going on.
And no, I'm not buying half the data either, sorry. It's a very dubious practice to present any results like this and claim this is the whole reality. It's a trifle matter in case of school admissions, but unfortunately MSM routinely apply this to much more important issues.