Nursery form teacher handed us a bag of poo

[ButterscotchWhip]

Right. I'll try to keep it short, but I don't think it will be.

DD has just turned 3. A couple of weeks ago she started in the nursery class of what I've now realised is quite a formal and strict girls' independent school. It is highly regarded locally, and me and DH loved it when we looked round, but I now fear I've done myself and DD up like a kipper sending her here.

She's fully potty trained but (my fault) I don't think I got her onto actual toilet training quickly enough. September has rolled around and she's just not 100% there on toilet training. I tell the staff this and they seem ok with it at first. I offer to send in her carry potty (which she loves and uses well) - they say no. The class is large, and the way they do toilet trips is to take a group to the loos and then the teacher stands nearby. It's just not enough support for DD, and she's had a lot of accidents there (for which we receive intense FIRST AID NOTIFICATION emails as they have to change her). Anyway, she's now never telling them when she needs to go, and she is running away from the loo at home saying she doesn't like the toilet (and started crying about it yesterday too).

We get an email from her form teacher this week saying she must now be in nappies during school time. DH emails back and says we certainly don't support this idea, she's on the right path but in a brand new environment, nappies will confuse her and send her learning backwards etc. He suggests that if this issue is one of a lack of resource / low levels of staffing, then that's a worry. He's not rude, just quite straight up.

The next morning at 9am, I receive a call from school saying DH must be collected and taken home for a bath as she's soiled herself AND they will not allow her back in school unless she's in pull-ups. I am not free to get her, neither is DH, but our son's carer/nanny is and happily collects her. She finds DD just needs a good wipe, not really a bath. Upon arriving at reception to receive DD, our nanny is given a binliner. It transpires this contains DD's soiled knickers, THE ENTIRE TURD, and all the wipes they have already used on DD's guilty bum (barf).

I haven't said anything in response to any staff yet as we already have a catch-up meeting, face to face, with the form teacher tomorrow. But presuming that they have a rubbish bin in school, I think the sh*t-bag might have been a thinly veiled message of hostility, no?

I am boggling from all this. Would genuinely love to hear what other MNers would do now!

@OneAndDon3 Bounced?!?! 🤨😆

I think people are missing the point that this isn’t a nursery, it is a nursery school offering a school-like setting for the academic year before reception. And I am sure that being toilet trained is a requirement of attendance.

It is still illegal to require children to be toilet trained in order to attend, regardless of the name or type of setting - pre-school, school, university.

ANY educational establishment that sets a blanket standard of continence as a condition of admission is breaking the law.

What the OP may be finding is the result of a school knowing they cannot say or write down that children must be toilet trained, but who are relying on ‘word of mouth’ and active bullying out of anyone who doesn’t meet the ‘unofficial standard’

@Ozanj Made up poo?!?!?! You're refusing to believe that a 3yr old struggling with potty training, soiled themselves?! 🤨🤨🤨

Fuck them. They sound uncaring and rubbish and if they are passive agressively punishing you with the poo bag, imagine their attitude to her. Find another nursery. At three their little arms can't reach round behind them properly to wipe. They do need help.

They aren't refusing to take her though, they're just asking that she wears a nappy. It's a school environment, would you expect a child to go into primary school having "lots of accidents"? It happens in that age group, sure, but it's not reasonable to expect school staff to be dealing with it repeatedly. It's not nursery or any other childcare setting.

Run

Barbara, every primary school in the land now has children starting in nappies. It’s been the subject of news articles:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3dykw576yo.amp

So yes, all schools have children who either have lots of accidents or are in nappies.

They sound absolutely awful. I wouldn’t feel comfortable sending my child there if they can’t be kind about a 3 year old having accidents

Are you in northwest greater London by any chance?
My children all went to the church hall preschool and state school, but through work I visit the 'very well regarded' girls school down the road and do sessions with their nursery and reception children. It makes me really sad. The nursery kids are told off for not sitting in an entirely straight line, the teachers are all dressed in business like clothes and some even in heels... definitely not prepared to get stuck in with the kids.
I always want to sneak messages in the book bags and tell the parents to send their kids to the warm and loving state primary down the road.
Expensive is not always best.

Is it right? Not necessarily. Is it a direct result of nurseries / pre-schools / nursery classes etc not requiring children to be toilet trained before arrival ? Probably. Is Covid also a factor? Possibly. Lack of health visitors and Surestart etc? Maybe. Modern nappies? Certainly.

I am a teacher in a school nursery. The expectation is that children can poo and wee on a toilet with only occasional mistakes. We have had some children start in pull ups or only using a potty but thankfully it’s rare for us. We are kind to the children and supportive of parents but numerous accidents really makes it hard to get anything done with the rest of the children. Getting their bag, making sure theirs two of us, taking off soiled clothes, cleaning child up, putting back on clean clothes, it really is a lot of time out of being with the other children.

I expect accidents from nursery children but now and again, anything regular I would be working with the parent and asking how it’s going at home, doing a chart for the child etc.

But the child is welcome to attend if not toilet trained. They just need to wear a pull up. It's unreasonable to expect teachers to get children changed every day when a pull up would contain the poo/wee.

We're not talking about an occasional accident, this is a child who is not toilet trained at all yet. They poo in their pants.

It’s a private school nursery so they can have whatever expectations they want, but they should have communicated them more clearly.

They are t trying to send you some kind of dig by giving you your child’s poo. The staff member who had to deal with it just wanted to get it over and done with as quickly as possible, probably because their employers have led them to believe that their job doesn’t involve poo.

Make sure when go in and talk to the head you take the bag of poo with you and place it on her desk 🤣

Does the OP feel her child is ‘welcome’ with a pull up? Or is it a grudging ‘well it’s better than soiled pants but you’d better get it sorted quickly or else’? I read it as the latter, but I completely accept I may be mistaken.

I remain completely shocked by how many people here keep saying ‘but it’s a pre-school/ a nursery class/ ours requires children to be toilet trained’. It’s been illegal to discriminate on the basis of continence for almost a generation now.

Yes but expecting them to wear nappies rather than staff having to deal with loads of accidents is fair enough, surely.

Omg, I was thinking same!
I pictured just putting it on the desk and saying, "DC was sent home with this and I thought we should discuss it. You're welcome to take a peek, if you like."

My (state) school's nursery has the toilets just off the room with access available all the time. I also donate all of DDs old pants and socks to nursery and infant school because they expect accidents!

I'm sure staff would prefer not to deal with it but they'd part and parcel of being an EY practitioner surely? Children are expected to be potty trained but it's also expected accidents happen.

There's no way I'd be letting my child go here - it's ridiculous - and grim.

Your child will end up with toileting problems if they continue.

Also do consider whether she's constipated too - it may be that the poo is hard and that's why she hasn't got the hang of it. Even with a v fibrous diet my daughter needed movicol...

If she starts withholding toilet training will be 10 times harder. If you have a nanny then maybe get the nanny to look after whilst she waits for a place at somewhere reasonable!!!

My closest all girls independent (with a pre-school) specifically says on their website that children must be toilet trained. So if the law does apply to independent schools then they must be fairly confident of getting away with it if challenged. It’s not even like it’s hidden in the literature given to parents as part of the admissions process- it’s right there for anyone to see.

Yep! And I've already said it but will say it again - whether it's a school or a nursery or a playgroup or whatever, children still develop in the same way. And a three year old having accidents in a new setting is understandable.

Thats fucking shocking.
It absolutely sounds like a form of aggression.
Who on their right mind gives someone a bag of poo.

Change nursery immediately

Wearing the nappy won't change the way staff have to deal with accidents. Unless the plan is because a nappy is absorbant they have no need to change her, and she can be changed by whoever picks her up. Which would obviously be abhorrent. Thus the only thing a pull-up will do is have a detrimental affect/set back for the child.