How many kids do you know definitely leaving private for state?

[Quodraceratops]

I'd be very interested to know how many children people know of who are definitely leaving their private school for a state school - not people with plans to do so in future years, solely those definitely going now / in 2025.
For myself - large Scottish all years school, I only have knowledge of my early primary kids's classes - no-one leaving so far (but I'm guessing early primary may be less affected as Labour have been signalling this policy for a while so you wouldn't start if you couldn't afford VAT).

"They do do loads for the community, it just goes to a different school"

Also as @DadJoke says 'picking up the top level grammar kids' and helping them with their Oxbridge application is hardly changing the world, when by your own admission these are all just wealthy middle class parents already sponging a free education.

So we have a ton of obese unhealthy kids with mental health issues and their solution is to try and limit private schools that have grounds?

Perhaps some community minded PS parents could put on some family cooking lessons? I’ve heard that’s a very useful thing to do.

https://www.christs-hospital.org.uk/about-christs-hospital/

“Christ’s Hospital is a remarkable school; it is unlike any other independent school in the UK. The school provides free and reduced cost places to over 630 of our 900 students each year. Students come from every possible ethnic and socio-economic background, bringing a social and cultural diversity that enriches our school community.”

How is charging VAT going to be good for a school like this which really is charitable? And they can be because of the large endowment.
Lots of the small ones cannot.

So now this school will have to take less pupils on bursaries because they will have to make up the VAT on the bursaries which are not at 100 per cent. I really do not understand why that is a good idea.

@pintofsnakebite - have you actually been to Slough and seen the local grammar school demographic or is this just more vitriole for vitriole’s sake?

Why is a grammar education sponging when the state sends abysmal funding to state grammar schools? They are costing the tax payer less!

It's quite astonishing that these private schools are both 'normal and stuffed with SEN pupils' and 'less selective than the local grammar' but also that the wealthy parents are able to move to the expensive catchments of the best state schools and grammars and take up all the places there.

I am also very dubious of the idea that parents who could afford an extra £3600 per year (on the average £18k fees) are SO pissed off at the government that in order to spite the government they will not pay the extra money and instead will send their kid to a much less well-resourced school and then subject them to hours of tutoring in the evenings,

People do not generally deliberately make things worse for their own kids when the option is there not to, and in fact usually make sacrifices in order to avoid this happening.

No, we all pay more for state education, you included.

@noblegiraffe - there is no ”these private schools” - they are not some homogenous mass you know. They differ vastly in size and in what they offer. They provide more choice to some parents. But it appears the Labour Party would like to curtail people’s choices, including the choices of teachers and where they can choose to work!

It's not me posting hyperbolic posts about how private school pupils are going to invade the state system en-masse, taking all the best school places and bumping state kids out of the grammars.

Now all of a sudden they're not. They're just normal families with average kids.

In fact many PS children I know have had their mental health worsened by private school and had to move to state.

@pintofsnakebite considering how much you despise private schools, how do you come across so many privately educated children? I’d have thought you’d avoid them and their parents like the plague.
How many is ‘many’?

@noblegiraffe - where I am in London they will be taking the state grammar places. We have been through grammar tests 4 times now, it’s pretty obvious to see what is happening and the grammars themselves are reporting a significant increase in applications. So there are and will be detailed statistics to back that up.

The ISC census is separate and shows the different types of private schools across the country. Other posters have reported on their experiences there. In particular, it’s been incredibly upsetting for those who felt forced into the private sector due to SEND.

It’s not really astonishing if you actually think about it. There are lots of different types of private schools. Some have lots of SEN pupils and are not selective at all. Some
are very academic and many of their pupils could easily get into top grammars, some are selective but less selective than the local grammar (hands up, that’s the type that one of my DC’s goes to)…I wouldn’t get that DC into my nearest grammar as they are not top 5% academically but I could move to another area which take top 20-25% academically and they would have a good chance of getting in.

Likewise, we could move to the catchment of a much better comp that some of their friends attend but it would cost us at least £150k to move (based on same sized house) so we decided to pay for school fees instead. However, if we genuinely couldn’t afford it, we could get a smaller house in a better catchment. We would have definitely moved had we needed to find spaces for two DC but luckily one did get into the nearest grammar.

Ultimately, people will do what suits their personal circumstances the best but parents who put so much effort into their children’s education are unlikely to decide to send them
to a failing state school if they can avoid it. One of my friends has decided to home school her daughter this year. That’s exactly what I would do if I had no other options.

but parents who put so much effort into their children’s education are unlikely to decide to send them to a failing state school if they can avoid it.

Well exactly. The idea that they would do this instead of paying an extra £3600 that they can afford is just ridiculous.

I actually think that's quite a lot.

Only 7% of children going to private school, so if 3% of the state schools were in partnerships that involved accessing or borrowing private schools’ facilities, that means roughly 40% of private schools were sharing their facilities (assuming similar sized schools in the two sectors).

And 13% of the private schools actually seconded staff to state schools. That's incredibly generous.

And similarly 13% of the private schools had partnership activities targeted at disadvantaged pupils. Could be better, but not bad.

Or wait... were you expecting the 7% of parents who are paying for their own childrens' education to fund the other 93% as well??

If your child plays the piano (maybe lessons from a charity like the National Youth Orchestra - so you pay for the lessons, but it's a charity) do you also fund piano lessons for another 13 children too? That would be pretty crazy, right?

@Boohoo76 - can’t you get the second DC into grammar at Sixth Form after private school?

PEPF cannot be taken seriously :1. To address the lack of comprehensive and objective data and information on the policies, operations and finances of UK private schools and other forms of private education such as tutoring. “

FFS what are parents meant to do when state schools cannot staff and tutoring is literally a lifeline for some onto certain uni courses.

The problem with PEPF is that what they should be doing is investigating the huge discrepancies in the state sector. Now that is where the real problems lie.
Why not go campaign for online tutorials for all especially where there are staff shortages! It is a basic that all kids should get online access to key GCSE subjects, as a minimum.

I actually think that's quite a lot.

They're not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, are they? They are doing it to try to retain charitable status, which benefits them.

(Maybe not the National Youth Orchestra: not sure they do lessons. I know the County Council do, and as a public sector organisation I suspect they don't pay business rates)

Again, I think outcome is more important than motivation.

You clearly disagree.

Your claim was that they were doing quite a lot.

If they are a charity, then it is not actually quite a lot.

It’s not just a one off £3600 is it though? And it comes on top of massive increases in household costs with some people finding that their mortgage payments have doubled. If there has been no cost of living crisis I think this policy would have had much less resistance.

I note that you have ignored the outcome of them paying less tax due to having that charity status too.

Always only looking at the outcomes that favour your view.

I wasn't the one claiming that parents would refuse to pay that extra money simply to spite the government even if they could afford it.

I think it is.

Do the National Trust second paid staff from 13% of their properties to support community efforts?

I'm willing to learn otherwise, but I suspect not.

National Trust properties - like private schools - are used by members at a paid cost.

I think that changing the boundaries of what makes a charity would have quite a wide ranging impact, and make the UK a worse place.

They would have to get all 8’s and 9’s at GCSE and I don’t believe that’s achievable for them but I may be wrong. They should be able to get into a better comp though. We live in a very strange area for schools on a county border and had my DC attended the local primary within walking distance of our house they would have had a very good chance of getting into a high performing comp over the county border (as the local
primary is a feeder for that school). But there were no spaces in the local primary when we moved here. They should be able to get into the comp for sixth form though.