has anyone had a Steiner education?

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I am very interested in the Steiner way of teaching and think it would be great for young children. However, I am not sure how good it is for older children as it doesn't focus on exams and I wonder if that would be a disadvantage. Has anyone been educated the Steiner way and could tell me more about it?

SueW, I will ask on my HE email list about Nottingham, if you want?

RosieT, I personally don't think there are any social advantages to school. You may have had social experiences in school, but if you're HEing, you create situations to socialise which you might not have had if you were going to school IYKWIM. Because you are not in school 6 hours a day you are using that time to do other things which involve meeting people, whcih you probably wouldn't have the opportunity to do if you're in school. Sorry, I'm not making much sense tonight, am I??? V.tired

Just because you HE doesn't mean that your kids are dependent on you. There are plenty of opportunities to be apart. HE kids are usually strong, confident and independent, partly because they are able to do it in their own time. They can have that independence in their own time and at their own pace. It's not a case of, because you are X years old the system dictates that you will spend Y hours a day away from me, 5 days a week. This sudden throwing in at the deep end is very traumatic for some children. I used to cry and scream and beg not to go to school. I vividly remember being about 5 and having to be physically restrained by my teacher while my mum left. She had to leave the rest of the class with one of the other teachers so she could calm me down. School was not a good experience for me.

Don't assume that HE parents orchestrate their kids lives. HE kids usually take at least some responsibility in organising their own activities, and they can choose when they are ready to do things which don't involve their parents. This way they dictate the level and the pace, which means they are the ones in control. It's just not a case of being with your parents all the time

I didn't hear the R4 programme, but there is a place on one HE website where adults who were HE'd speak about their experiences. Never actually looked at it myself, but I can find a link if you're interested (because I'm getting so good at doing those now )?

anais, yes thank you, I'd be interested in hearing about HE in Nottingham.

SueW, There's an email for a HE grop in N. Notts - email [email protected] for more details. That's all I've come up with so far.

Will try and find some more to post later

OK. I'm going to be very brave here and I am sure I will get loads of greif! I know on some baby sites I might get a real lynch mob. I hope this site isn't like that!!! I am NOT trying to argue but give another opinion, promise!!!

I am a teacher first of all. I teach ICT and Business Studies at secondary school. I did teach at a very good school. My current school is not so good! I wouldn't send DD there in the future okay! But it isn't because of the teachers, of that I am sure. It is more the catchment. For example, I went in on my day off just before Christmas for a parent's evening. I had 2 hours of consultations booked - less than half the parents bothered to show up, with no phone call or even a follow up the next day. The main thing with eductaion is getting the right choice for your child though - look hard and be insistent.

I have thought about people HE before but what concerns me is this - I studies for 4 years, plus constant professional development to become a teacher. I know my subject inside out pretty much. I don't just follow the curriculum step by step - I vary it. I also vary it within each class I teach. If kids are becoming fed up or struggling I change tracks. I try my hardest to produce work that they will find interesting and inspiring - hours of work outside of school hours too.

But although I can teach my subject and know all the bits and pieces of general teaching strategies and techniques I would struggle to teach all the other subjects available to a standard as high as GCSE and A-Level. What happens if DD or DS wants to go onto uni> Or get a job? Most ask for qualifications. If they haven't done them, what then? Also, many jobs ask for a minimum number of GCSE's, often 5 or 6 as that's what's needed for A-level, would I know enough of tht many subjects?

Someone mentioned above (sorry, can't find who right now) that they weren't inspired by any of their teachers. I am so so sorry for this. I hope that teaching has improved since this and that things are a lot different now.

I hope no one has been offended here. I just had one or two queries of how these things were managed, that all.

Claireandrich - you won't get lynched here (hopefully)! Personally, HE is definately NOT for me - in fact I am one of those mums who just can't wait to get her child off to school!! But I have found this thread really interesting and learned a lot from both points of views.

You sound a great teacher - I am horrified at the thought of all those parents not turning up for parents evenings, I bet they are the same ones who complain to the school about the slightest thing. I am constantly amazed at the lack of interest so many parents seem to take in their childrens education and are so unsupportive of the schools. We had a big fund-raising, publicity type event at our local secondary school & I went along to support it even though my DS is only 2. Friends, who have children at the school, told me they 'couldn't be bothered' to go along!

No lynchmobbing from me either. I've taught in an A level exam factory for a number of years, and I loved my job. The kids/young adults were there to pass their A levels. Some were there from September to January, some from September to June. So there are ways of getting the qualifications if you need them. What bothers me is that so much of school is now geared towards exams, and that is not education. So although I will probably HE DS1 because mainstream schools are in general totally unsuitable for educating autistic children, I would like to send DS 2 to a steiner school so he does learn about things other than exams. I had a flick thorugh the local steiner school website- their ex pupils had gone on to do all sorts of things from medicine to circus training!! If DS2 needs exams he can do them after he leaves there at 16, by which time he will have done all sorts of other things as well.

Claireandrich, no lynch mob here, well...not much anyway

Yes, you make a good point about the catchment area, I do think this has a bearing on it. I have a friend who works in a school like this. If the parents are not supportive, then there is little that the school can do - it needs to be a partnership. I think in most cases it is a combination of factors.

Ok, onto your questions about HE. You are a teacher, I'm not, but then I'm not setting out to teach my children. Just to be there to point them in the right direction so they can learn.

I don't know if you've read the whole thread - it is getting pretty long now, but I've said below, being home-educated doesn't mean all the learning takes place in the home. You can utilise all different resources for learning. There is no reason why HE kids shouldn't take exams or go onto Uni, plenty do, the difference is that the child can choose whether or not they need vocational qualifications.

Many HE kids do their qualifications at the local college, or through correspondence courses. Many do them early and over a number of years. The learning is just very much more flexible.

Thanks Anais.

SueW...

14:00-16:00 - Home Educators - Priory Church Hall, Priorswell Road Tel. 480793 (first Thursday each month)

otherwise in the EO handbook there are 2 tel numbers which you may already know
Wendy 0115 9114312 or Louise 01773 780634

Also there's a group called H.E.L.P. (home educators liberation papers) and that they meet regularly in Mansfield. Ladies names are Barbara Stark or Jacqueline, that's all I know, sorry

Thanks anais. I emailed the people you gave that address for last night.

Anais I am somewhat confused by your postings.

You say you look forward to teaching your child, and yet you have no academic qualifications yourself. I really feel you have got taken up by the wonderful lightness and lack of structure the HE will have on your child, but you don't seem to appreciate that a child needs a decent education. To let your child dictate what he wants to learn is irresponsible to say the least. How can a child at 7,8,9 know what he wants to be as an adult????If he doesn't like maths for example and find's it hard at first - and you let him off learning it, then you've crossed off all those fulfilling careers that require maths!! At 16 he might want to be a doctor and he'll need his 3 A levels, but too late, he can't do it because you never taught him biology/ math or whatever.

Anais children just can't be treated as adults since they do not know what's good for themselves - that's why they are treated as children and told what to do!!

School is not this hell hole of drugs/bullying and boredom as you seem to portray. Yes these issues exist but they exist in the grown up world as well and the whole idea of HE seems to be about protecting your precious child from the big bad world. As a normal mother with normal children I do actually get offended by this message. You are telling all of us mothers on mumsnet that your child is somehow different from ours, better off away from us and 'the system', better off being 'indoctrinated' by you his mother. Come on Anais, there's wonderful teachers and wonderful children you are denying your child. Afterall where is he going to find his friends if they are all at school when he wants to play!!!Children want to be with other children, not their parents all the long day!I can understand why those HE adults on the radiop said they wouldn't want it for their children. Don't you think you should look further than the extremism of the internet sites and talk to a HE adult or two?I can't believe HE'ers can make such a big decision without examining the adult they may produce!

I know this post may sound harsh but there is a real theme of naivity on your posting, that no-one seems to have addressed. And as I said, on behalf of all those trained teachers and normal children out there I do get offended!

Lil hi- as a teacher I have to say I found your post naive! If a child of 16 decides he wants to be a doctor he certainly hasn't left it too late. I've taught 30 year olds A level Biology who have then gone onto read medicine. And generally they are the ones I would most like to see as Doctors as their out of school experience has given them a maturity not found in a lot of the students who want to be doctors because they've always had A grades.

I now teach on an internet chat room and I can always tell the HE students (I make a point of asking if I suspect they may be), as their maturity and interest stands out a mile.

I have to say I find your constant referring to "normal" children slightly offensive. I may be touchy but if DS1 isn't normal (which he isn't) what is he? Abnormal? Maybe he's just a square peg who isn't going to fit into any round school sized holes.

Hold on a minute Jimjam, I talk about 'normal' children just to distinguish from HE-ers. OK what should I say... 'non HE-ers'? but I can't believe you're pulling me up on political correctness grounds, please don't tell me the word 'normal' is offensive. Since state schools are not geared for the extra needs of an autistic child then your reasons for taking your child out of the system are surely very diferent from mothers like Anais.

And as for these 30 year olds you talk of, you're right that mature students have more to offer, but we're talking about children here. Children that might want to go to uni at 18 along with their peers, why make it harder for them.

As someone who loved school (state) and academia, uni the lot, I think that academia has alot to offer and that HE-er parents are not giving their children enough oppertunities if they prove to be academically minded.

I find the statement that there are no social advantages to chool astonishing. Surely I can't be the only one to have made my most important, lifelong friendships there?.

Ok I misunderstood how you were using the word normal. I didn't realise you were applying it to distinguish Hedders.

I still don't think it has to be any harder. I hope to send DS2 to a Steiner school. He will leave with 4/5 GCSE's (at the age of 16). If he chooses to follow an academic path then he can- he just needs to do an extra year of GCSE's, (or possibly go onto A levels- and apply to a Steiner friendly university.)

I am from a very academic background- both myself and DH are Oxford graduates, I'm educated to PhD level, and I really really really don't like the way state education is going in this country. Test after test after test is not education. I've tried to teach 18 year olds who have been through the system, are trying to get A grades but panic if they get a 3 mark quesiton as they may have to string three sentences together (and these are future doctors). I also worry that academic children at school get sort of one tracked into a profession (not sure that's English but I should be hooverng so my brain isn't engaged-lol). For example DH went school, 12 O levels, 10 A grades, 4 A levels 3 A grades, 2:1 Oxford degree, law school, lwayer Oh Sh** how did that happen!! By giving DS2 a Steiner education he won't come out with the exams but he will come out with a broader education and hopefully some idea of what he wants to do. If he wants to be a lawyer, fine, he'd be mad, but fine, he can go and study intensively to get the bits of paper he needs. Incidentally if a HE child wanted to go for somewhere like Oxford I suspect they would be fairly flexible on their admissions criteria, if their interest and knowledge on their chosen course of study was obvious.

Totally agree Croppy. And when I look back on school I remember the playtimes and lunchhours spent with my friends, the chatting on the schoolbus, playing hockey and netball, giggling thru' assemblies, the school bully, the thrill of the annual school play, daring to wear non-reg. school uniform, being caught, dreading exams, the stomach clenching D grade, and the thrill of an A grade!!, dreaming about the school hunk, smoking behind the bike sheds, looking forward to school holidays, then looking forward to going back.

God, imagine missing out on all that and growing up in a parental bubble.

Croppy of the five schools I went to, the hundreds of children I met - there were 28 in my class and 112 in my year for 5 years of senior school for instance - I have only one friend with whom I am still in contact. So school wasn't a big thing to me wrt to long-term friendships. I enjoyed it though. ANd had lots of friends the time. We've just not kept in touch.

Jimjams, I can understand your worry about state schools, but if you can afford Steiner (and as hubby is a lawyer!!) then surely most of your worries would be put at ease at a good curriculum based private school?

Jimjams, I can understand your worry about state schools, but if you can afford Steiner (and as hubby is a lawyer!!) then surely most of your worries would be put at ease at a good curriculum based private school?

But Lil HE children aren't sat inside their house protected from contamination from all others by overprotective parents. If I though HEdding meant I had to stay inside sweating over the books it's the last thing I would do. HE children have plenty of social contact (unless they live in the Australian ouback and I'm sure they still have it then). Their friends may be mixed ages and mixed genders but they're still friends. Part of the reaon I want to HE my autistic son is because the opportunity for social interaction is so much greater than if he goes to school.

HEdded children may not remember the school bus, bu tthey may remember spending many weeks each summer going to various camps, or their weekly Tuesday afternoon social group meeting.

I don't understand why you're so against it. OK it's not for you, fine, but why does it matter if Anais chooses it for her children? School isn't for everyone, just as HE isn't for everyone. You seem to think that by not going to school children miss out on academic oportunities and social interaction, yet a little research into the world of HE would show that neither view is true.

My Mum used to be very anti HE. For various reasons 2 of my cousins had to be HEdded for a short time (one for a year and one for 2 terms). In both cases she was horrified. I didn't tell her I planned to HE DS1 for a while, when I did, she was really positive. Because knowing him she knows that school is not the right place for him, unless it is a very caring and wonderful school (as his current mainstream nursery is). Her experiences with him have totally changed her view of HE. Unless you know Anais and her children you are not in a position to judge her choices.

But these days private schools are in general worse!! What do parents want? Good exam results! What do most private schools provide- good exam results! How do they get them? By following an exam based curriculum, which is not education. I teach these things, you may as well ask the kids to rote learn a section of the telephone directory.

A good private school does have the advantage of providing a whole host of extra curricular activities. but DS2 would be even more likely to end up a lawyer!

No seriously, I love the idea of a broad curriculum. I 'd love for DS to do gardening and learn to make things with wood! Steiner still appears to provide an education. Of course if DS2 goes there and it's wrong for him, then fine he can move. Remember it's all fairly normal in Germany, and I'm convinced their education system is far better than ours in terms of educating. Actually forget A levels if my boys want to go onto Uni I'd far rather they did international bac- that's a qualification worth having.

Rambling sorry.

Completely agree about the IB being worth having.

However, it was mentioned that HE kids can do correspondence courses for the subjects that their parents are not up to speed with. Aren't these rather pricey?

They can be- it depends. A lot cheaper than a private school though. A more cost effective way is evening classes at a local college. Some take children under 16 (I did photography at an evening class when I was 14), some don't.
The expensive bit is probably entering for the exams themselevs, but you have to pay exam fees at private schools anyway.

And I suppose that evening classes would have the advantage of a person to person contact to help a child through areas in a subject that they find difficult. There are times that everyone needs to be 'taught' a topic, even thought they may be capable of 'learning' others. For example I taught myself A level chemistry, as the school teacher I had was dreadful, but I was taught physics, as the teacher was good, and my grasp of basic phsics was poor. It is obviously essential to provide an environment for a child to learn, but sometimes they do need teaching.

Probably true for older chilren who decide they do want to get some formal qualifications, but in many subjects this teaching could be provided in the form of guidance from a parent.

I think opportunities for flexible learning are going to increase dramatically in the next few years.