has anyone had a Steiner education?

[forest]

I am very interested in the Steiner way of teaching and think it would be great for young children. However, I am not sure how good it is for older children as it doesn't focus on exams and I wonder if that would be a disadvantage. Has anyone been educated the Steiner way and could tell me more about it?

anais - I wanted to add my support about home Ed. Our local school is fab, and dd will probably start to go there. But (here, admitting things about us I never have before on Mumsnet) our plan in the medium term is to go and work abroad. We are very interested in doing voluntary/church work in Central American and are in the process of applying to various organisations to go for 5-7 years or so starting in about 3 years time. Which will mean, as we hope to be in a remote area, that I will have to homeschool my 2, as there is no way I would board them. We plan to come home for secondary education as our local school, as I have said, is brilliant, and I am not confident enough in my abilities in science and technology type subjests to teach them to exam level.
Homeschooling is therefore the only option for our family if this goes ahead.
Are you in muddlepuddle? Its an online home ed site and suppport group for early years, and it is great (I don't use it a lot as dd is only coming up 3, but there are some fab ideas there and good links). If you are, see you there!

Of course I lay in bed last night and thought of all the benefits that I hadn't mentioned! And I still can't find that bl**dy link I was looking for. No matter.

Right, well I'm pleased that I have inspired a few people to maybe look into HE.

Yes, SusanMT I am on Muddle Puddle - it has been my main source of support over the last few months. For anyone looking into home ed I can't recommend it strongly enough. You might like to check it out Forest muddle puddle

Wooo, that's the first link I've ever done - hope it works!!!

Anyway, where was I. HMB, I'm probably not the best person to ask about HE at secondary level, as we are nowhere close, but I will try my best to answer

Firstly, you don't need to follow the national curriculum at any stage. As far as exams go, many HE'ers choose not to do any exams. Others go straight on to A'levels. GCSE's aren't really necessary, employers don't really require them. If you do choose to do exams you can do them trough a local school or college,or through a correspondence course.

Covering subjects you don't like is more difficult I think. If it's a subject the CHILD doesn't like, then I guess you don't cover it ,unless it's really vital, in which case I suppose you find ways of making it more interesting for your child. If it's YOU as the parent who doesn' like the subject, then again, find ways of making it more enjoyable, or maybe get someone else to cover that subject (evening class? tutor? a friend or another parent?). HE kids often do very well in Higher/further education, partly because they already have the skills needed to organise their time and studies. There is absolutely nothing to stop them going to university, and sometimes universities will use their discretion and and allow pupils without the stated number of qualifications. Or, as I have already said, 'pupils' can do their A'levels first.

I hope that helps

That is very interesting. Thank you for the reply.I am starting to teach scince, and there are tons of things on the web which help in teaching ot to children. I suppose that it must be true for all subjects. If we are all still on mumsnet when your children are in secondary I can give you good web sites If we still have the web at that stage. I can also do some exciting things with hot water and coke cans that grps the kid's attention I repeat what I said before, you are doing a great thing, and I take my hat off to you. I couldn't do the modern languages bit if my life depended on it.

Anais,v interesting thanks for sharing your thoughts and plans for your childrens education.Did write you a long reply but dh interupted me and so did the kids spilling something so I lost it drat.It was probably boring anyway

Lol, well thank you, Hmb and star.

I finally managed to find that list I promised. I was beginning to think I'd dreamed it! Just in case anyone is interested...

Reasons To Homeschool

Spend more time together as a family.
Spend more time with children when they are rested and fresh rather than tired and cranky from school.
Avoid having to struggle to get children to do the tedious busywork that is so often sent home as homework.
Allow children time to learn subjects not usually taught in their school.
Allow children to have time for more in-depth study than what is allowed in school.
Allow children to learn at their own pace, not too slow or too fast.
Allow children to work at a level that is appropriate to their own developmental stage. Skills and concepts can be introduced at the right time for that child.
Provide long, uninterrupted blocks of time for writing, reading, playing, thinking, or working so that the child is able to engage in sophisticated, complex activities and thought processes.
Encourage concentration and focus - which are discouraged in crowded classrooms with too many distractions.
Encourage the child to develop the ability to pace her/himself - this is prevented in a classroom where the schedule is designed to keep every child busy all the time.
Spend a lot of time out-of-doors. This is more healthy than spending most weekdays indoors in a crowded, and often overheated, classroom.
Spending more time out-of-doors results in feeling more in touch with the changing of the seasons and with the small and often overlooked miracles of nature.
Children learn to help more with household chores, developing a sense of personal responsibility.
Children learn life skills, such as cooking, in a natural way, by spending time with adults who are engaged in those activities.
More time spent on household responsibilities strengthens family bonds because people become more committed to things they have invested in (in this case, by working for the family).
Time is available for more nonacademic pursuits such as art or music. This leads to a richer, happier life.
Children will not feel like passive recipients of subject matter selected by their teachers. They will learn to design their own education and take responsibility for it.
Children will realize that learning can take place in a large variety of ways.
Children will learn to seek out assistance from many alternative sources, rather than relying on a classroom teacher to provide all the answers.
A more relaxed, less hectic lifestyle is possible when families do not feel the necessity to supplement school during after-school and week-end hours.
Busywork can be avoided.
Learning can be more efficient since methods can be used that suit a child's particular learning style.
Children will avoid being forced to work in "cooperative learning groups" which include children who have very uncooperative attitudes.
Children can learn to work for internal satisfaction rather than for external rewards.
Children will not be motivated to "take the easy way out" by doing just enough work to satisfy their teacher. They will learn to be their own judge of the quality of their own work.
Children will be more willing to take risks and be creative since they do not have to worry about being embarrassed in front of peers.
Children will be more confident since they are not subject to constant fear of criticism from teachers.
Peer pressure will be reduced. There will be less pressure to grow up as quickly in terms of clothing styles, music, language, interest in the opposite sex.
Social interactions will be by choice and based on common interests.
Friends can be more varied, not just with the child's chronological age peer group who happen to go to the same school.
Field trips can be taken on a much more frequent basis.
Field trips can be much more enjoyable and more productive when not done with a large school group which usually involves moving too quickly and dealing with too many distractions.
Field trips can be directly tied into the child's own curriculum.
Volunteer service activities can be included in the family's regular schedule. Community service can be of tremendous importance in a child's development and can be a great learning experience.
Scheduling can be flexible, allowing travel during less expensive and less crowded off-peak times. This can allow for more travel than otherwise, which is a wonderful learning experience.
Children will be less likely to compare their own knowledge or intelligence with other children and will be less likely to become either conceited or feel inferior.
Religious and special family days can be planned and celebrated.
More time will be spent with people (friends and family) who really love and care about the children. Children will bond more with siblings and parents since they will spend more time together playing, working, and helping each other.
Feedback on children's work will be immediate and appropriate. They won't have to wait for a teacher to grade and return their work later to find out if they understood it.
Feedback can be much more useful than just marking answers incorrect or giving grades.
Testing is optional. Time doesn't have to be spent on testing or preparing for testing unless the parent and/or child desires it.
Observation and discussion are ongoing at home and additional assessment methods are often redundant. Testing, if used, is best used to indicate areas for further work.
Grading is usually unnecessary and learning is seen as motivating in and of itself. Understanding and knowledge are the rewards for studying, rather than grades (or stickers, or teacher's approval, etc.).
Children can be consistently guided in a family's values and can learn them by seeing and participating in parents' daily lives.
Children will learn to devote their energy and time to activities that THEY think are worthwhile.
Children will be able to learn about their ethnicities in a manner that will not demean. Children will be able to understand multiculturalism in its true sense and not from the pseudo-multicultural materials presented in schools which tend to depict others from a dominant culture perspective.
Children will not learn to "fit into society," but will, instead, value morality and love more than status and money.
Children do not have to wait until they are grown to begin to seriously explore their passions; they can start living now.
Children's education can be more complete than what schools offer.
Children who are "different" in any way can avoid being subjected to the constant and merciless teasing, taunting, and bullying which so often occurs in school.
Children with special needs will be encouraged to reach their full potential and not be limited by the use of "cookie cutter" educational methods used in schools.
Low standards or expectations of school personnel will not influence or limit children's ability to learn and excel.
Children will be safer from gangs, drugs, and guns.
Parents will decide what is important for the children to learn, rather than a government bureaucracy.
Family will not be forced to work within school's traditional hours if it does not fit well with their job schedules and sleep needs.

I do agree with all of that. BUT I have to work, so is Home Ed just for the rich or for those who live on benefits? You clearly can't work and be a fulltime teacher to your children at the same time.

But Aloha, when kids are learning outside of a school environment, they don't need to be 'taught' full time. Because it is one - to -one it is far more 'intensive', and many HE'rs only do formal type learning for maybe an hour a day. I believe that there ARE those who work, full time and HE their kids. Childcare, I guess is a diffent matter, and they would need to be in a stimulating environment. I personally don't know anyone who works and HE's so I can only guess at how it works, but it CAN be done!

So what happens when you want to study a subject (I use the word 'study' carefully because I guess you might pick me up on this) that you know very little about? Also, what do you do about preparing for GCSE's etc? I accept that a national curriculum can be a limited way to study but the rest of the world still only recognises our education via our formal qualifications.

Sorry, don't mean to sound aggressive, I'm really curious about this.

Interesting list, anais. I can definitely see the attraction. But a few thoughts and reservations:

For me the very first reason makes home-schooling a no no! I know that sounds facetious and evil but I think our family spends enough time together, or almost enough- 24/7 would drive all of us crazy, especially me. I think it may be possible to spend far too much time together as a family... Even if you don't think so, your children might, at some point. Isn't home education going to limit their access to inspiring teachers other than yourself? (And the awful ones too have something to teach- I had to make many moral choices about whether to join in teacher heckling and baiting...)

Also, what about YOUR personal development in all this? You're obviously a bright and talented woman- how are you going to fit your own education/career/activities around being your kids' full-time teacher till they are 16, 18 or more? Even if you can get away with only teaching them directly for an hour per day or so what will you do with them while you work/study/do your thang?

Last point, for the moment, do you think your kids might get the message "mainstream society is scary and hard to negotiate, and I am too precious to enter it" from not going to school? This is my main reservation about both home schooling and private education, I think. Isn't there a danger that you are subtly telling your kids both that they are, in some fundamental way, different and better than the majority of children who are stuck with the local state schools and, paradoxically, that they don't have the resources and skills to cope with those schools? I know we all think that our children are the best and are scared of how the world will treat them- but I wonder if this is a good message to give? I aspire to give my kids a different message- that the world, society, people are endlessly fascinating and that they have the strength and resources to deal with and enjoy that world. Here's hoping eh, now I write it down it seems a bit of a tall order!

I have only just glanced at your list anias and don't know if this question has been asked before but I'll press on:

I'd say my 8 year old son is a fairly typical child - he likes some learing but not all. He will happily read books of his choice, but put a book in front of him and tell him he HAS to read it and you have an uphill struggle. For homework the same applies - he likes what he likes and hates doing the rest, so bribery, cajoling and threats are administered by me. HE could make life easier for him and me -we could tailor his studies.

However, some learning, IME is never going to be instantly appealing. Not all elements of maths and English grammar are easy and give instant gratification if you master them, but you have to master them in order to do the fun bits. Music practice, for instance, is not a laugh a minute for most. Take a child like mine, who does not love all learning for it's own sake, and I don't think I could make all study fun for him.

Now it's his teachers who take the full brunt of my son's sometime apathy. As a parent I get the nice bits - the trips to museums, the reading of chosen story books. I fear that if I was HE, my son and I could easily end up at war with each other, because he I just cannot ever imagine him going happily to his desk to learn his 9 times table. So HE, I think, would be detrimental to our relationship - agree with scummy - we all need a break from each other.

must preview - not learing but learning!

Well I think we've come to a decision (this is me and dh). DS1 will be home edded- he's autistic and yes I do want to protect him from mainstream education. It's not that's he's too special to attend, it's just that the whole environment is totally wrong for him. Just coping with the noise of a mainstream classroom will be almost impossible for him. If his hypersensitivties reduce as he gets older then I would consider sending him to school.

And DS2- hopefully will be Steiner educated. he's only one but I'm hoping to start attending the local mother and toddler group. The reasons are partly to do with his older brother. Steiner schols appear to educate children about disabilities and their links with the Camphill movement seem to foster an emapthy with differences (this is just my view- hope?- not sure it's correct). So we hope that if he attends a STeiner school he is less likely to get agro about his brother- and hopefully ds1 will just be accepted for who he is. It's also to do with education as well though. Schools are now set up to teach exams, but imo the exams do not provide an education (I'm a teacher and I've taught people to rote learn stuff they don't understand or appreciate just to get a good mark). IF DS2 needs to do something which requires exam results he can always spend a year collecting the necessary pieces of paper, but he should have got a broad education by then.

I'm sure not everyone will agree, and had I not had DS1 I would never have come to this decision, but it's changed my views on so many things (although I was unhappy with the way education was going in the this country anyway).

I;m quite excited that we've actualy made the decision.

Anais,it sounds like a religion reading that listFrom reading your posts I'd love you to teach my children too-and from reading your posts and getting an impression about things it sounds as if your ds "lively" as you say would thrive in a school environment.I think and it's very commendable,I kind of like your outlook being rather anti disciplinary not squashing of liitle spirits and minds feeling as I think you are too,that you want the best for your children.Why not join the bastards and train to be a teacher yourself,the kind you'd like for your kids.My dd is in awe of all the teachers she has had so far and while i have intalled a not too much discipline approach on my son from a v young age ,school and his teachers have managed to get him to tow the line which is not a bad lesson for him to learn in life I feel and school has enriched him socially.Dd begs me to let her go to school even when I insist she stays home when off colour.Perhaps you'll hear your ds ask to let him go to school one day.Well you never know?What would you say if he did?

Wow, you turn your back for 5 minutes..

Ok, one at a time, Tinker...don't worry about sounding aggressive, you don't come across that way at all.

Right, you want to study a subject you know little about. Well, I guess there are a number of options. Firstly, the best one - if it is a subject you are, or could be interested in, then you can study it yourself, alongside your children. To me that is one of the advantages. I had a pretty patchy educational experience (long story, but I was in hospital and missed a big chunk of school aged 7, which was very difficult to catch up from, aged 11 I suffered from depression and stopped going to school. The rest of my education was made up between a home tutor and college, which I started at the age of 14)and having the chance to study subjects which I might not otherwise bother with, is a bonus. You could, possibly get a tutor. Tutors advertise in the paper in all sorts of subjects, maths, language tuition, art - most subjects. Often they advertise for GCSE revision and the like but there is no reason why it couldn't be at any level. Or a college course - colleges will often take younger students, although different establishments have different admission policies.

These could also be used when preparing for exams, although many HE kids choose not to take GCSE's. They're not really a whole lot of use. A'levels are more important and experience is very often worth more than just qualifications.

ScummyMummy. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't actually remember having ANY teachers who inspired me. In fact, I can't even remember most of them. I guess my kids may come across some inspiring teachers if they go to school, but they may spend 11-12 years working their way from one tired work-worn individual to the next (no offence any teachers out there - I am just speaking from my own narrow experience). There are plenty of 'what-ifs' that you can apply to any area of your life. You have to make a decision one way or another and you have to do so without the benefit of hindsight to twll you whether it was right or wrong. That's life, if you base it on what-ifs you'll never get anywhere.

Thinking back over my life, the most inspiring teachers I have met have been just normal people, usually older people, people who have travelled and just generally seen life. HE children, not cooped up in school 6 hours a day, have far more opportunity to come into contact with such people, and often more of the social skills to communicate with them.

As far as my OWN personal development, well, as I said in my reply to Tinker below, it will give me the opportunity to learn alongside my own children, and probably learn things I would otherwise never have done. There will always be the times when they are at clubs and groups, frinds houses, etc to give me a bit of time to myself. You can do childcare shares with other home-edders to give you a bit of time, or make use of family and friends the same way you might with pre-school children to allow you a bit of free time. Oh, and thank you for the compliment. I'm not sure about being bright and talented, but thanks

As far as your last point, this is an interesting one. Would you ask this question of someone who put their child in a public school? Or a Steiner school, for example? A 'special' school? HE does not mean opting out of society all together.

"I aspire to give my kids a different message- that the world, society, people are endlessly fascinating and that they have the strength and resources to deal with and enjoy that world."

Why should they not be able to do this if they are HE'd? HE kids have (generally) much more opportunity than schooled kids to mix with interesting people, and interesting situations. They get a far wider range of experiences open to them than kids who are in school 6 hours a day.

Tigermoth, you know your son better that anyone, and that gives you the benefit of knowing how to make things appealing to him. You know his interests and can work out ways to fit the particular subjects around his interests. Music practice is an interesting choice of example. Because learning an instrument is something you do for pleasure, not because you NEED to do it. IMO, if a child doesn't have the DRIVE to learn an instrument then they will gain nothing from it. Yes it's nice, later on in life to be able to play an instrument, but if a child is forced to do it, playing won't be a pleasure, and that defeats the whole object. So you push your kids to do their music practise but at what cost? If they resent it so much then they choose not to continue once the choice is their's then you've had all that pain for no gain. If, on the other hand, the child WANTS to learn then they should be able to do so, as and when they choose, and it will be a pleasure to them. This encourages responsibility. They soon learn that if they don't put the effort in then they get nothing out, and if they want to do it then it is only them who can make that effort.

Anyway, I'm kind of going off on a tangent and ranting now Sorry! But IMO it applies to other things too. Ok, I guess there are some things which have to be done, but most of these can be made into a game, with just a little imagination.

You say "Now it's his teachers who take the full brunt of my son's sometime apathy."

It's school that creates that apathy in most cases. Kids come into the world full of desire to learn. Think about a baby learning to speak by mimicking all of what is said to him, or experimenting with gravity by throwing his food over the side of the high-chair! It is school and all its rules - sit down, keep quiet, put your hand up when you want to go to the loo, and the teaching methods - learning what the curriculum dictates when it dictates, going at the pace of the middle ability range children etc, rather than things that interest you, when they interest you, that quashes this enthusiam for learning.

And as I've said before, you DO get time apart, but this is in your own time, rather than at a time dictated to you by'the system'

Jimjams, congratulations on your decision, I hope it all works out for you

I agree with your comments about school work being very much to do with learning for exams, rather than learning for learning's sake, which I personally don't feel is a good thing.

Star, I do feel a bit like a preacher here, selling the virtues of HE They aren't my reasons, though, they were answers given by HEing parents in response to a questionnaire (sp? that doesn't look right?)about their reasons for HEing.

Please don't get me wrong, I have nothing against teachers Honest! I just don't think school is the right environment for my kids.

As far as teacher training goes, noooo! I don't want to be part of the system. I don't think I'd be very good at it either. I used the term 'crowd control' further down and I think that is a big part of teaching. And teaching your own kids is very different from teaching 30 other people's kids. It has crossed my mind, and the thought of inspiring the next generation (!) sounds pretty cool, but I'm not sure it's really like that - I'm sure many overworked teachers would agree!

At any rate, if I'm going to be spending my day with children, I want it to be my own children. It seems slightly strange to me to spend all day looking after someone else's children, while someone else spends all day looking after yours (again no offence intended!).

My ds has shown some interest in school - fuelled by that frequent question "So when does he start school?" and my mother's crafty comments (grrrr). I have explained to him some of the aspects which I thought would make him think twice - not being able to play; not being able to do what he wants; having to do what he's told all of the time; having to eat at a specific time; go to the toilet at a specific time; doing subjects he has no interest in; having to stop learning at a designated time, whether he's finished or not; not being able to do subjects he enjoys; etc, etc, etc.

He soon changed his mind.

Anais, what will you do if your child doesn't want to learn to read, write or count? It may seem unlikley, but it can happen. And re GCSEs, I agree that they may not be of much use. However if your children don't have them they will not be abole to train as teacher in the state sector It is the only time I have had to prove I had them since I lest uni!! And will Unis let you in without them? In my day (some time ago) I had to have 5, inclusing English, mathes and a modern language.

HMB, As you say, I think it would be unlikely that a child doesn't want to learn to read, write or count. Children have a natural curiousity, and desire to learn. Most children's interest can be stimulated by applying it to something that interests them. Introduce books which relate to interests, and the chances are that he will want to know what the words say. And the same with maths - it's just a case of finding a way to spark the interest.

Speaking from my own kids, my ds (4) could count to 100 at age 2 1/2, and he know has made a very good start to reading. He loves collecting leaflets and forms and filling them in with combinations of squiggles, letters and numbers! He can write quite well for his age, and is fascinated by signs and symbols, words, numbers and anything else. My dd (21months) may, of course be a different matter, but so far seems to be following the same pattern. She can count to 10 already - mostly thanks to her brother - and has a wide vocabulary, just like he did at this age. I haven't pushed either of them, at all, just provided books, toys and lots of conversation.

I think, usually, the problems children have with learning are to do with school. Children who have bad school experiences can be put off learning for good. School can be great - if you happen to be average. Bright kids get bored and lose interest, the slower ones get left behind and lose interest, and if this isn't picked up then they can be damaged for life.

As far as GCSE's - well, there's no reason why you shouldn't do them, plenty of people do, it's just not obligatory. Much of schooling is just geared up towards passing exams, and it doesn't need to be like that. But I have described ways below that can be used to take exams.

TBH I don't know if you need GCSE's for Uni, I'm fairly sure A'levels are enough.

Anais, I think that it also depends on the school. Dd is very quick to learn and the school that she goes to is good at keeping her stimulated while not pushing her ahead of the stage she can cope with emotionally. So her reading age is well above the expected level but she still gets to play with all her friends. All schools are now expected to have a gifted and talented program for the more able child, though these do vary in their standard. You are expected to provide 'differentiation' in all the lessons you prepare. That is, work for talented children that stretches them, and also less demanding work if needed. I appreciate that you didn't have a good experience of school, but not all schools are like the one you experienced.

anais, I had to smile at this paragraph:

My ds has shown some interest in school - fuelled by that frequent question "So when does he start school?" and my mother's crafty comments (grrrr). I have explained to him some of the aspects which I thought would make him think twice - not being able to play; not being able to do what he wants; having to do what he's told all of the time; having to eat at a specific time; go to the toilet at a specific time; doing subjects he has no interest in; having to stop learning at a designated time, whether he's finished or not; not being able to do subjects he enjoys; etc, etc, etc.

He soon changed his mind.

[Suew] I have had a similar conversation with my daughter. I feel very positive about home ed but at the moment we are very happy with my daughter's (private) school. However, if we had to withdraw her, and I can only imagine we would do so for financial reasons, I would home educate her rather than put her into the local state school. I have a friend who is within the education system and she offered to find out some info on local home ed for me but she said that in her experience in this area (Nottingham) it is mainly done by religious groups. I'd be interested if anyone knew otherwise.

Anyway, to get back to the point of your paragraph - I have discussed home-scholling with my daughter. She loves the idea but since it's not for us at the moment, I try to sell the downside. I go through all the positives - from my point of view - we could go on holiday whenever we wanted and do day trips and farm trips and go riding, biking, play in the park and swimming etc as much as we wanted. She could come with me to the supermarket and we could do reading, writing and maths and other books at home (she does anyway). She loves this.

Then I tell her she wouldn't have playtime every day with her usual friends and she wouldn't see the same teachers she has now, may not do plays in front of the parents or assemblies infront of the whole school. We wouldn't have set holidays so we might forget when we were not supposed to do lessons.

By this time she's decided she doesn't like the idea.

Of course, if I have to take her out of school, I'll have to hope I can sell the positives much more than the negatives. And I may have DH to contend with if I intend to do it for more than a short time.

I know the 'traditional' idea of school isn't for everyone ? or every child ? and some mothers don't feel they have any choice BUT to home-educate ? and I know some of these as, sadly, I live in one of London's worst-achieving education boroughs. However I would take issue with the idea that there are no social advantages to going to school. There were loads of experiences I got from school that were nothing to do with 'sitting in silence with 29 other kids' and some of my dearest friends date back to my school days (and there's no way I would have come into contact with them otherwise).
I do believe that it's important, though, that children have experiences and develop relationships independently from their parents ? there is a danger of 'too much closeness'. Growing up is a gradual process of individuation, and I worry that having your parents orchestrate every minute of your life may be in danger of interfering with this. However, as I said earlier, I do appreciate that some parents do not have a viable alternative and home education is by far a preferable option than sending your child to a dire school.
Having said that, did anyone hear the feature on either R4's Woman's Hour or You & Yours a couple of weeks ago called 'unschooled' (or similar)? 5 'home educated' adults were interviewed about their experiences of being home educated and not one of them said they would wish the same for their child.

hmb, no, but an awful lot of schools don't have such good facilities, and teachers are overworked, and have 30 kids to keep an eye on, and some are bound to fall by the wayside, and kids get labelled as trouble makers, when all they need is attention.

Yes, my views are coloured by my experience (who's aren't?) and yes, I know school is a very positive experience for many. All I am really trying to do is promote HE for those who want to know. I have been surprised myself by the number of people who have expressed interest, but at the same time, there are still lots of people who don't know that HE is an option. I know I come across as very anti-school, and I'm not really, I just get very defensive from constantly coming across negative attitudes (and incidently, I don't mean anyone on here, I mean in the 'real world' my family in particular are very negative).

It all comes down to the same thing really, what suits one person may not suit another. If you (by which I mean one!) are happy with school and your (by which I mean one's!!) children are happy then fantastic. But is isn't the only, way, that's all