To think unless you’ve been to private school you don’t really understand why it’s so valuable?

[huopp]

I have so many people telling me the state system is fine, a private school just has better facilities, that the teachers aren’t any better, that the extra curricular stuff can be done after school at a state school but at a different venue etc etc…

whilst all the above is true, it isn’t what makes a private education valuable? And that you have to actually have lived it, been to one, to get the whole experience it gives you across the board and not just academically?

i think this is why a lot of people with ‘new money’ don’t always spend it on school fees. In contrast those who have been privately educated mostly want the same for their children.

My dad was privately educated and so was my mum for a period of time.

My dad is very strongly against private education and my mum is a bit meh about it. My brother and I were both state educated and have each have great careers.

I don't know what you mean by the experience. I went to a grammar school that gave me a way to escape from my parents' life so no first hand experience.

My ds is at a small independent because he was bored stupid at state primary. He was bullied because he liked reading novels & doing maths, and didn't like football. The state senior place he was offered was at a school where only 41% of boys pass gcse maths.

So he tried for a local scholarship and got in. Now there is no bullying, he has friends, enjoys sport, is absorbed in maths & physics. He's happy.

That's why he wanted to go there. To be stretched at maths. To get away from the bullies. It's no more complicated than that.

Did you mean to be so pompous 🙄

What’s laughable is the idea that public schools aren’t full of “new money”. Honestly, behave.

This is interesting to me, in that it shows a completely different perspective to mine.

For me, the arts at primary school are about involving everyone, giving everyone a chance to have a go before they may become embarrassed by any lack of talent at an older age. I'd much rather Jingle Bells belted at full volume out of tune then a beautifully harmonised Silent Night.

This is one of the reasons I would never consider a private primary school - primary school should be all about enthusiasm rather than achievement.

(And I'm a privately educated academic, so familiar with the private education world, and obviously value education.)

I’m the opposite went to the local public high school and sent my daughter as a day girl to a mn all girls boarding school. My experience taught me there had to be something better and by gosh it was amazing! The facilities, the teachers were amazing, rules were enforced and the girls were all on the whole pretty nice to each other. It’s the best money I’ve ever spent.

Unless you’ve gone to a state school you can’t understand why THATbis so valuable.

Some of the smaller ones are brilliant for (some) neurodiverse kids. I took my DS out of state school in year 4 and really struggled and scrounged money from family to out him in an independent school. It was such a relief!

He loved it and I think most people (particularly ASD parents) would be amazed by how differently the parents are treated. Like actual human beings…I was listened to, emails were answered promptly, all hell didn’t break loose if I decided he needed a day off…

Sorry if that doesn’t help…I know we were lucky but it’s important to bring attention to the fact that ND kids and parents are often treated really badly by state schools and parents are usually scapegoated ie. We’re to blame because they’re fine at school. I was told that it was my anxiety causing all the problems. I’m here to say that it isn’t us because my DS was fine at an independent school.

You can’t know that unless you’ve had experience of private education?

To be perfectly honest I feel it is like veganism people don't need to know because people who have been will tell us all about it a lot

Oh he sounds like my DS with the maths. I’m sure this won’t go down well on here (but I don’t care!) but my DS was doing long division on the whiteboard in year 1 and the schools answer was to make him help his classmates! Had to sit there learning to count to 10 when he knew numbers beyond 1 billion when he started reception.

I went to private prep school then grammar school.

This is obviously just an anecdote but for me, it is likely that my academic outcomes were better for having gone to the grammar school.

However, I was miserable. Things were much more pleasant at the private school. Children had more varied interests - at the grammar school it was football or self imposed isolation. I literally sat by myself for 7 years, teased by others, after being one of the more ‘popular’ kids at my prep school. There were basically no extra curricular activities at the state school either .

Whilst I achieved excellent grades and went to an excellent uni, I lacked the softer skills I would have obtained at private school, such as public speaking or even self confidence! Realistically, I didn’t achieve as much as I could have done in my career or as quickly as I could have done had I not had such a hit to my confidence from moving to a state school (even a grammar). I also had no idea what sort of earning potential was possible, so didn’t aim for the right jobs straight away.

Perhaps this is more of an issue in my case of moving from private to state, but my experience makes me firmly believe that private school can be a much more pleasant environment than state school. I want my kids to have the most enjoyable upbringing as possible and I think this will be at private school.

I mean, my mum went to a well regarded private school and there was a mad girl who used to lock the other students in cupboards.

My cousin's all went and several of their teachers were arrested as convicted paedophiles.

I've heard horrific stories from boarding schools...

I went to state school and loved it. You couldn't pay me to send my kids private

I experienced both private and state, my brother all private (and the 'naice' facilities evenings and weekends type). Of the people I met at private 6th form and many of my brothers friends an unfortunate percentage have had very troubled adult lives (drugs, alcohol, crap relationships or workaholic emotionally distant types). I thought the whole system was batshit tbh, pulling kids away from parents and leaving some random in loco parentis. The very odd cultures, rules, subtexts, focus on god, queen and country. Absolutely archaic (even back then) .... beautiful buildings though and amazing facilities.
Not only do I not think it's worth it (I mean in terms of return on investment you could gift your kids a huge lump sum towards housing costs for the cost). I also genuinely wouldn't want it for my kids. There is more to education and your formative years than grades, extracurricular and a quiet, respectful learning environment (which I think is what people mean when they cite the awful behaviour in state schools). Private schools by their nature cannot be as diverse because aside from the odd scholarship kid you need north of 60k income to send your kids there (and some vastly more). That's not an average income. The diversity and messiness and yes somewhat less calm learning environment is actually something I value. Being exposed to that and learning how to navigate it and the differences and challenges and seeing and really living with the huge variations of life in the UK I think creates a more rounded experience. And in my professional experience better leaders ...My one exception are schools that are unsafe or where kids are under threat of violence, but having worked in youth justice they are thankfully vanishingly rare.

I was privately educated. When I see the absolutely amazing state education both my children have had, I wish my parents hadn't bothered.

@CelesteCunningham Yes, you make a good point - inclusion and opportunities to give things a go are very important.

Except in many state schools (I’m a governor and volunteer as well as a parent at this one) these things aren’t happening. The concert I mentioned was a two-week rush job, cobbled together between the phonics catch-up sessions and SPAG lessons that make up about 80% of my daughter’s experience of school (massive push on phonics atm as outcomes in the nonsensical Year 1 phonics check were below par last year). No piano accompaniment as there’s no one in the school who can play. No introduction to even basic musical theory or notation. No choir; no orchestra (we had both at my state primary in the ‘80s). Nowhere near as many school productions, class assemblies or opportunities to perform in general, as SLT don’t want to facilitate the necessary time out of class.

Other local primaries are all broadly similar - it’s not just music; there’s so little bandwidth for anything creative in the state sector right now. In my governor role I’ve been fighting to retain the little that is left, but it’s a losing battle against a headteacher who is terrified of Ofsted and sees functional skills as being more important.

Unfortunately unless you have either a very enlightened maverick Head or a critical mass of middle class parents who will notice and push for this stuff, state provision for the Arts, sport or anything beyond the 3Rs is often pretty dire.

'U'= Upper class, 'Non U' =not upper class, but aspiring to be,

Load of old bollocks if you ask me! Who cares!

It should be down to behaviour and merit, not the lottery of birth.

Both private schools and state schools are a mixed bag. Some private schools give their pupils an idyllic education with lots of space and attention. Others are full of hothoused, stressed little souls who are missing out on normal childhood experiences because they have weekly Mandarin, judo and then extra tuition to make sure they stay top of the class. Similarly, some state schools have excellent facilities, motivated teachers and lots of extra-curricular and other opportunities for the kids, while others are struggling to deliver an adequate education in any sense of the word.

No - I went to private school (a good one) and, yes, it had benefits. I know what those are (confidence, ability to make connections with the right people, having a good cultural frame of reference etc etc) and can recreate them for my children without sending them to a private school, and I can ensure they don’t have to suffer the terrible bits (bullying, snobbery, thinking my life depended on my grades, to name but a few)

So YABU - I’d go so far as to say you have to have experienced private education to understand what’s NOT good about it

it means Upper Class. It's an expression that was invented by one of the Mitford sisters in the fifties. It's fallen out of fashion as an expression

I’m the opposite went to the local public high school and sent my daughter as a day girl to a mn all girls boarding school. My experience taught me there had to be something better and by gosh it was amazing! The facilities, the teachers were amazing, rules were enforced and the girls were all on the whole pretty nice to each other. It’s the best money I’ve ever spent.

My private school education taught me that I'm a superior human being. I'm not. That was a tough lesson to learn at uni.
But my biggest gripe was that the only post A-level options we were told about were uni to do an academic subject, law, or medicine.
Turns out there's a big exciting world out there full of a million other options, which thankfully my state educated children are being inspired to explore.

Your grammar school sounds really unusual with the narrow interests and lack of support with things like public speaking. I don’t think most grammars are representative of most state schools.

At mine there were debating competitions in assembly, a large music block with access to piano rooms outside of lessons, a swimming pool on site, etc. I didn’t particularly like it there 😂 but they definitely encouraged extracurricular activities and it was pretty distinct in character from the state school I would have gone to.

It sounds really odd to my ears to hear a grammar school referred to as a state school! (Rightly or wrongly.) I think I more often hear grammar schools compared with ‘state schools’.

Sorry you had a rubbish experience where you went.

It’s interesting that you have so little faith in your children that you believe they will only be well groomed and polite if you send them to private school. Are they really that bad?

It means Upper Class. It was a term invented by one of the Mitford sisters in th e1950s