To think unless you’ve been to private school you don’t really understand why it’s so valuable?

[huopp]

I have so many people telling me the state system is fine, a private school just has better facilities, that the teachers aren’t any better, that the extra curricular stuff can be done after school at a state school but at a different venue etc etc…

whilst all the above is true, it isn’t what makes a private education valuable? And that you have to actually have lived it, been to one, to get the whole experience it gives you across the board and not just academically?

i think this is why a lot of people with ‘new money’ don’t always spend it on school fees. In contrast those who have been privately educated mostly want the same for their children.

People with “new money” have experienced success without the help of a private education. People with “old money” have only ever experienced success with the leg-up given to them by their parents and private education. I’m sure the idea of going without it would be extremely daunting if it’s all your family has ever known, hence why very few “old money” families don’t send their children to state schools whilst “new money” families don’t necessarily see the need. Presumably new money families have used their wealth to move to a nicer area than what they grew up in, and therefore their children are already likely going to a much better school than one they went to themselves.

In our family one sibling went to a private school (scholarship when Direct Grant schools took the top 11+ performers, when everyone took the 11+), one went to a comprehensive and one to a grammar.

All have roughly the same grad / postgrad qualifications, and though in different fields all have had the career and opportunities they wanted, and have achieved well.

Parents and home have such a strong influence.

If everyone pulls their kids out of private, it will still be the children of parents with the ability and resources to add social and educational capacity that take up the greatest proportion of Oxbridge places.

Based on my own experiences (and DC’s Dad, fantastic intellectual-based career having gone to a truly terrible boys state school) we didn’t send our Dc private. Well, we couldn’t have afforded it, but wouldn’t have done if we could. Dc went to a S London comp in an area frequently dismissed on MN in rude and derogatory terms , and have done extremely well.

It’s a good comp that has a truly representative cohort of our area, including young people from very disadvantaged and / or disordered backgrounds, some involved in gang activity, and the offspring of professionals, creatives and arty types. The school does well by all abilities and supports bright kids who don’t get that support at home.

But my kids did art galleries, music, historical visits, theatre etc with the family. It adds a lot. We did often take DC’s friends from very different circumstances with us, but it’s not the same as constant contact with discussion, ideas etc.

The average child who doesn’t have great support at home are the ones who suffer the most in the state system imo. Especially those who are well behaved.

Having experience of both state and private school, I can categorically say that good private schools outpace most state schools in terms of the quality of the education they offer. People will have priors and prejudices but it really is about finding the right school for the child. I went to a bog standard state comprehensive that had some amazing teachers. I did ok and went to university, the first in my family. My eldest DS is incredibly smart, went to state primary which basically ended up using him as a TA at age 8 (he completed all his work and then helped his classmates). His teacher told me he needed greater challenge, so I pulled him out and sent him to an excellent private school on a full bursary. He went to a good state grammar year 7-11 and did well but did not receive the kind of nurturing and inspiration he had received at the private school. For sixth form, he opted for a different private school as it offered a greater range of subjects, and again he won a bursary. He excelled and absolutely loved it, made loads of mates and is now at uni with friends from both the state and private school - they all get on brilliantly.

I think people forget that private schools offer many bursaries and scholarships for kids from working class backgrounds. And I can assure you that the private schools were FAR more racially/ethnically diverse than the state schools he had been in. My younger son, btw, is not as academically-oriented and is very happy at the local state comprehensive. We do not all have to fit the same mould.

This! 👏🏼

I’m privately educated and agree that being privately educated probably does give you a better understanding of the value of the whole offer. But I don’t think being state-educated puts people off paying school fees - for everyone who dogmatically sends their kid to state schools because they don’t believe in private education, there’ll be others who send their kids private because they want the cachet. And I know plenty of privately educated parents who see the value in a good education but if that comes from a grammar or outstanding academy, all the better for the bottom line! Horses for courses.

So, agree with your initial premise, but not the outcome of your argument 😁.

I think it largely depends on the child. My best friend went to private school and ended up a druggy/prostitute (she’s sorted herself out now). And I went to a shitty comp and have a very stable life with a great job. My husband was a free school meals boy and now in an industry with lots of privately educated people and he’s the most successful out of them. I know some that did boarding school and thrived and some that have major attachment issues and on Prozac etc.

times are changing and most people now recognise that society doesn’t view privilege as a good thing. I could have sent my children to private but decided that socially they are better off mixing with different people. I think lots of privately educated people have a chip on their shoulder and never really feel like they’ve actually earned anything. And people view them this way too! I don’t want that for my children.

I could have sent my children to private but decided that socially they are better off mixing with different people.

It vastly depends on what sort of groups they are mixing with.
Interestingly, where I am the private school is much more racially diverse than the state school for example. Which gets the tongues going about how many ‘brown people’ there are there…

@DullFanFiction yes, same with private schools that we viewed too. but this is about class.

Ours are now in a very diverse state school which is great.

I went to both. They were a very different experience. I can see why parents might value the kinds of things that a private school can offer, but as a child / teen, I didn’t really see the value of being bullied by a gang of absolute cow bags in private school. I was much, much happier when I was finally moved to state school from year 9. The kids seemed so much more open and accepting whereas the private school had a herd mentality and the kids had very blinkered views. I formed a false confidence at private school that made me very good at pretending to be fine, however it was at state where I realised I could be myself more and through that I learned what I deem to be a far deeper sense of self and confidence to be who I am.

Meh, I went to private school and actually think a lot of the advantages are given ah home ie having a stable, safe, loving home life with parents who value education and support the kids. I won’t send mine but will spend the money saved on experiences, holidays, tutors if needed, extra curricular activities

@RitaAndFrank the false confidence that comes from private education is fascinating. I’ve seen this with all the people I know who are privately educated!

State child 1 could be the next Einstein, but if kid #2 went to a private school - It's kid#2 getting into that higher society and the state kid is kicked to the curb.

I think that’s interesting comment because I actually don’t think that’s what happens.
Kid#1 with access to a grammar school will do well and have all the opportunities to become the next Einstein.

Kid#2 is benefitting from the relationships HIS PARENTS have. That’s how they get better opportunities after Uni. It’s not that the links they made at school.
From experience, they are the same type if relationships you have in State. They dwindle after A levels. 3 years on, my dc hardly speaks to any of his ‘old friends’ from school. They’re not going to build a career out of that.

And the reality is that this is true whether kid#2 is going to state, grammar or private.

This is really not where the advantage of private school is imo.**

I was privately educated, my kids are at state schools.

We did look at going private, and a lot of that was to do with my own hang ups about private vs state. Ultimately we weighed up the benefits of private school vs the benefits of not having parents who were stressed out of their minds and either counting every penny or rarely home because at least one of us would have had to take on a much more demanding and better paid job.

We decided that our kids needed us to be more present in their lives, so we would stay in less pressurised jobs and be able to spend more on other things. So far (one in secondary and the other in primary) we haven't regretted it.

DH and I both went to state primaries, then private secondaries. I can't imagine that I have any kind of special insight into the advantages compared to any intelligent person. Small class sizes, generally good behaviour, better facilities, better range and quality of extra curricular activities and trips. We won't be sending DC to private school unless there is a very surprising change in our finances.

I think the networking/access to the privileged elite element is overrated, because generally this comes through your parents' social circle rather than your school friends' parents. Of course, the two are going to overlap. But a parent who's a lawyer or doctor for example with their children in a state school is still going to be socially advantageous for their children regardless of what school they go to, especially if the children want to follow the parent into the same profession.

I formed a false confidence at private school that made me very good at pretending to be fine, however it was at state where I realised I could be myself more and through that I learned what I deem to be a far deeper sense of self and confidence to be who I am.

Thats an interesting experience because my dcs had the opposite experience.
They were finally able to be themselves at private school.
One because being ‘nerdy’ and good wasn’t seen as a reason to bully you. It was actually celebrated.
The other is on the spectrum and finally found people who were on similar wavelength like him. Because he was accepted for who he was - the quiet kid - rather being ignored and forgotten. Plus all the activities allowed him to develop a sense if self confidence and have experienced that prepared him well for Uni.

I went to one of the very best private schools and have chosen to send mine to state.

Most people I know sending their children to private schools now are wanting them to be socially upwardly mobile. A lot of Carole Middleton types. Which is fair enough, just an observation.

Not all state schools are shite. Round here they are all good. All these posters who say private parents only care?

I agree with @TakeMeDancing , and do not agree either @izimbra :

"You have to have a parent who values education.

You have to have a parent who will take you to open days.

You have to have a parent who will help you prepare for any entrance exams.

You have to have a parent who will support you in your education while you're at private school."

This is laughable. Like state parents don't care?
Have you ever read Mumsnet? Looked at the secondary section. Year threads. 100's of parents who care. Who care about their children who take them to every university open day they want to go to, many of these children get 3x A star and go to Oxbridge or top Russell group universities. parents who really care. parents who take their children to swimming every day at 3 am, or do top county rowing, or gymnastics, or GB Uk team judo or whatever's.

and hire tutors or do whatever they need to do to get their kids into .. both my sons are at the local school which is great. They get hundreds of children in Oxbridge with a designated program to support all children who want to make Oxbridge Applications and most of them get their places.

Children in top set up for Maths, and 2nd set normally get A star. Minimal disruption. They are there to learn.

you're in cloud cuckoo land if you think that some of these children have less than private school kids. Many of those children had everything going for them: loving care families, increased, many of them rich, children are nice, good looking, sporty, clever, lovely, wealthy.

Many of my sons friends living in 1.5+ million pound houses and they're lovely children and they've got everything going for them. they want for nothing they got everything going for them and this is all state and all the parents are invested. I've never met a parent who wasn't invested.

look around the Mumsnet threads and you'll see every parent invested. You're in fucking cloud cuckoo land if you think it is only private Parents that care about their children.

Many of my sons friends living in 1.5+ million pound houses and they're lovely children and they've got everything going for them. they want for nothing they got everything going for them and this is all state and all the parents are invested. I've never met a parent who wasn't invested.

This sums up how annoying these threads and this argument is. It's not private schools themselves that give an unfair privilege to certain children. It's MONEY. Whether you use it to pay for private schooling, or million pound houses, tutors, sports, extra curriculars, a parent at home. There is a far smaller gap between the kids you describe above and most private school kids than between these kids and those in deprived areas and failing state schools.

Private schooling is an easy scapegoat for the inequality in education and additional opportunities that are a function of wealth, however you choose your deploy that wealth.

Not a truer word said

That's not true @bumpetybumpbump.

I was only making a point. I could've written more, but my post was long enough as it was.

I didn't list the children from lower income families, on free school meals. It's not just about money. Their parents are still invested, go to every parents evening. That child is still in 1st set or 2nd set for maths GCSE. Still gets 3 x A* A'levels. Still gets into Oxbridge or top uni. Money has nothing to do with that, does it?

@blueshoes

I completely disagree. It's not all about money. See latest post.

Kid#2 is benefitting from the relationships HIS PARENTS have. That’s how they get better opportunities after Uni. It’s not that the links they made at school.

I agree with this.

I'm in Surrey. I only work part time. We aren't rich! Surrey is very diverse. Tonnes of money. Chelsea football club have their training ground nearby. But it's also diverse. Surrey has more children in poverty, more children on free school meals than any other local county.

Ok I maybe shouldn't have mentioned /joked about many of Ds1's school friends in their big houses. (Can I please withdraw that sentence?)

Please stop making this all about money. it's not, is it? It's not all about the money here. see the above post.

many of these kids don't have money at all and there's nothing stopping them from doing well at many of the local schools. They aren't from privileged backgrounds, not rich parents but they're doing well and the parents are still invested and they're still doing well and they're getting good GCSEs and A-levels and going to university and it's not all about money so please stop talking about it being just about money because that wasn't the point of my post.