To think unless you’ve been to private school you don’t really understand why it’s so valuable?

[huopp]

I have so many people telling me the state system is fine, a private school just has better facilities, that the teachers aren’t any better, that the extra curricular stuff can be done after school at a state school but at a different venue etc etc…

whilst all the above is true, it isn’t what makes a private education valuable? And that you have to actually have lived it, been to one, to get the whole experience it gives you across the board and not just academically?

i think this is why a lot of people with ‘new money’ don’t always spend it on school fees. In contrast those who have been privately educated mostly want the same for their children.

I spent 2 years in primary in 2 different private schools, the other 5 state and 2 years in secondary in private, the other 5 years state. These are the differences I noticed:

• private schools have better facilities and nicer physical environments
• food can be good or bad at private or state
• private schools have smaller class sizes resulting in more individual attention
• private schools have lower levels of disruptive behaviour (disruptive kids are kicked out or not admitted in the first place due to selective admissions)
• Teaching is not necessarily better in private schools. There are excellent and bad teachers in both, in about equal measure.
• Private schools can have a more stressful and competitive academic environment, probably due to high parental and school expectations and academic selection at admission
• Mental health was poorer at private schools (though state schools not without problems as well)
• There is a much bigger range of academic ability at state schools
• State provides better preparation for living in a mixed society
• Private school can provide more specialist subjects (e.g., Latin, classics, further maths) and may provide better preparation for certain careers
• Teaching is to a higher academic standard in private schools (again, probably due to a smaller range of ability and academic selection). But probably not that different to top sets in state schools.

You have to be 18 to get a tattoo....what ages are you talking about?

I think saying ‘private schools are <insert opinion> is just as stupid as saying ‘state schools are <insert opinion>’

Very simply there is a huge variation between schools regardless of whether they are state or private.

Eg my state school is ‘outstanding’ but the culture is awful. There is no ambition at all, including from the brighter students. Lots of talk about avoiding the local (excellent!!) university because it’s ‘posh’ and too academic 🙄🙄
If a pupil was saying they were dreaming to go to Oxbridge, they’d be tired apart and bullied fir being ‘nerdy and posh’
(Note: no one but really no one is posh where we are).

And yet, talk to people from a ‘leafy area’ about their state school and their experience will be the opposite.

Same with private schools really.

Maybe they were picking up on your unprofessional stereotyping? I’m sure they noticed your judgement and contempt.

I can’t remember the progress 8 score of my local school off the top of my head, but it’s not great, when I looked previously it was worse than all but one other school that I could find, particularly for lower ability children.

It runs no extra-curricular activities; doesn’t use the science labs for practicals because of bad behaviour; has a massive teacher turnover; classes are sometimes combined in the hall with one teacher or have a cover person, and left to do worksheets; children don’t get given textbooks; there’s no homework; bullying doesn’t really seem to get dealt with - I could go on. It doesn’t have a good Ofsted rating.

So I’m not saying that either of the two schools that you describe are better or what makes a good school, just that some people don’t have a clue quite how bad some state schools actually are, outside of their personal bubble.

I am less convinced of the benefits of killing yourself to scrape together the money to send your child to the badly performing under-subscribed fee-paying school with no facilities, or even a stressful academic hothouse full of girls with eating disorders (I’ve been to both) over a decent state option.

@Saschka i agree with you.
I think it also dependent on what’s available around you.

The choice is pretty poor around where we are. Even the so called good secondary would have people from ‘leafy areas’ run away.
The two good schools are oversubscribed too so it’s not as if you have a choice anyway.
If you have an issue (like dc1 with bullying), you have no choice
If you have a child that is doing really well, there is no grammar school around either.

However, having visited two local private schools, I agree that paying for the small not really selective school with little facilities isn’t really worth it. Or at least it wasn’t for my 2 dcs. It might well be that some children would really flourish there.

I have no idea how you have got the brass neck to say that when you have routinely stereotyped people throughout the thread!

This cones across as very "Marie Antionette". I believe you, I'm sure it's amazing. State education, on the other hand, is on its knees financially. Yet 93% of our country's future workers are educated there.

If its such an incredible privilege, why shouldn't parents pay the VAT as suggested?

Take money out of a private school education and what really is it without that money!? Truly think.

Sometimes we are literally just being sold a brand, a name, a society, a club, a higher echelion.

State child 1 could be the next Einstein, but if kid #2 went to a private school - It's kid#2 getting into that higher society and the state kid is kicked to the curb.

I wouldn’t do it ever whilst at work, and certainly not in a medical setting with children!!

I work at the other end of be scale, and we treat everyone with dignity and empathy. Do you somehow think their schooling or ‘privilege’ makes them less human and feel less pain and suffering?!

I am certain your contempt was the reason for their disregard. Discrimination works both ways.

Yeah state school kids all look like pirates / steptoe 🤨☺️😂

Sorry @Meetingofminds it wasn't me you accused of contempt in a medical setting. But you, know, keep digging! Because you certainly don't sound very empathetic here!

I know loads of under 18s with (shit) tattoos. Exclusively done domestically with tattoo guns belonging to friends/parents. At school (private) in the early 90s a girl I knew had 2 tattoos done by an actual tattoo artist. She had a dolphin above her navel done when she was 15 and a rose on her boob which was a 16th bday gift from her parents. Her parents owned nightclubs.

Wait, you’re certain it was the attending Dr’s fault that the boys she saw were openly misogynistic?

That’s a wild determination to see things through a particular lense!

I agree. I went to state school and then private school. Academically and career-wise I think I would have done the same if I’d stayed at a state school, but I wouldn’t change my private school experience for the world!

Yes YABU some people might see the benefits all they want but a term costs more than their annual salary.

If this is you, it’s given you a very narrow minded “let them eat cake” mentally OP, equally some don’t want that for their DC.

I think unless you have dc with specific ND needs you have no idea that some dc can't function in a room with 25-30 students.

Hi everyone, I'm just wondering what everyone means by private school please? My understanding (I'm fully prepared to be corrected) was that private school (like Eton etc) was for anyone with enough money (a lot of money) and no entrance exam whereas Independent school (much less money but still not cheap) needed a pass of a quite difficult entrance exam. Thank you

And some parents have no choice but to leave their children in that situation. I, personally, don't think that should be a state Vs private situation, SEN provision needs to be vastly improved, many children are being totally failed by the system, especially those whose parents can no way afford private.

I am, however, more than happy with the education my children have /are receiving at the local state, including ds who has autism and just finished his GCSES. It is an absolutely fantastic school, though probably not by MN standards. I am forever grateful that my eldest got a place as it wasn't our catchment school. Oh and it isn't selective by sleath, you can buy a house in catchment for little more than £100k.

I was both privately and state educated and hated private school. Total waste of money imo.

Eton and such are usually called Public schools.

Private / Independent are generally used interchangeably, some are super-selective, some fairly selective and others will accept anyone who is able to pay.

For example my sister went to Posh School EH that was highly selective and creamed off the top. Posh School EG nearby was regarded as being for those who hadn't got into the first school but whose parents still wanted them to go private in that area. I think they still had an entrance exam but the acceptance score was a lot lower.

Grammar schools are state funded and also selective (though some private schools may have Grammar in their name)

You appear to be the kind of person I would never want my kids to become ( I’m guessing you’d class me as “new money”). I have plenty of friends and friend’s children who go to private/public schools ( amazingly we do fraternise you know!) . I am well aware of the advantages of a public school education. I am also aware of the disadvantages. A prime example being your post! The arrogance and of using terms like “old money” combined with the ignorance of believing that they live in a privately educated exclusive bubble! Go and work on your household budget so that you can afford the VAT !

I understand its value, my Grandfather taught at one but also believe that they aren’t charities and that customers should pay appropriately for them. Secondly I think that all children should have access to the same level of education so maybe they shouldn’t exist at all.

Can anyone tell me the difference between how gifted and talented students are treated at private vs state?
Is being moved up a year (acceleration) more common at one vs the other?

I am thinking of sending my kids to private school solely on the basis of them being more likely to be accelerated if they're exceptionally, top-of-the-year, way ahead of the pack smart.

Is this the case?

I am aware of state schools that never bothered or even considered this but I have no idea how private schools fare when kids are extremely clever.

Yes, I definitely notice this too. There are several Mum friends at DCs school and they have it. I've also seen it at work. My DH didn't go to Private School but his younger siblings did and they have it. My DH has ended up earning more than his privately educated siblings, through hard work though. I don't think it makes a difference necessarily career wise.