To think unless you’ve been to private school you don’t really understand why it’s so valuable?

[huopp]

I have so many people telling me the state system is fine, a private school just has better facilities, that the teachers aren’t any better, that the extra curricular stuff can be done after school at a state school but at a different venue etc etc…

whilst all the above is true, it isn’t what makes a private education valuable? And that you have to actually have lived it, been to one, to get the whole experience it gives you across the board and not just academically?

i think this is why a lot of people with ‘new money’ don’t always spend it on school fees. In contrast those who have been privately educated mostly want the same for their children.

Did someone say state school children are not going to Oxbridge?

Of course some are, you could say in some cases in spite of going to their local failing state school (not counting the 1.5m million catchment houses in leafy Surrey who can top up with tutors) rather than because of their state school.

I don't think all private schools are equal, just as state schools aren't. I went to a small private girl's school and I don't think it did much for me.. whereas dh went to a top London boy's school and he has always believed he could achieve anything he wanted. He's an expert networker, able to communicate effectively with people at the top of their field as well as anyone and everyone.

His school was the making of him.

Sorry, but there is a direct link between family income and university attendance/destination. This doesn’t mean it is impossible for a low income kid to make it to Oxbridge, just that they are statistically less likely than a child from a better resourced family.

you are correct that it isn’t JUST about money, but family wealth is a stronger indicator of future success than which sector they were educated in.

I would argue that if they have parents that are invested they ARE privileged- just a different kind of privilege. Parental input is probably the most important factor, and it can take many forms - money for private school, tutors, extracurriculars OR it can be in the form of parental time/ energy. If you are working part time and using the extra time to support your children (directly or indirectly) then that is a type of privilege.

Actually I don't think the education is necessarily better. Possibly smaller class sizes. But the expectations of a longer day probably put off quite a few teachers from working in the private sector.

What private schools do give is the expectation that they will push your child to do their best. It works well for some children. I've known an awful lot who just didn't engage though and are no better off in life than those who went to state schools.

Yes, that’s unreasonable. Some private schools aren’t that great.

I had a boyfriend who’d been to private school.

Most perks were of private school were class size (often larger than my grammar school class sizes) and extracurricular activities. I actually did more by choice outside school and tried skiing, ice-skating, gymnastics, swimming and diving, flute, cello and drums, fencing, trampolining, rock climbing, shooting, ball sports, basket ball camp with a local team player as coach, loads of craft groups, hiking, orienteering and DofE. And many types of dancing. All sorts, and for much less than private school. I guess my average cost was £25 weekly as I went between activity types.

My boyfriend was also offered less languages (my school did 5, including Latin). French and one or 2others of your choice was the start.

We were taught to think at grammar school and he was taught to pass exams (so we’re we of course).

i always joked they had proper equipment like dissection trays while we used newspaper, learning to make the best of what was available and maybe reading the news too (not available on proper shiny dissection tray).

In this one example it would appear my grammar school and outside school extracurriculars led me to have a better education at a fraction of the cost.

Many private schools are waaaay better especially than state school, but anyone who has the inclination to research can see the benefits and costs of different individual schools as well as trends of private/state/grammar/home Ed//academy/religious school/Steiner etc.

We are beginning to question the value for money of a private education.

DH and I were privately educated and went to selective schools which had good facilities and we both did well academically

Our kids go to non selective independent schools. There are no selective schools near us. It's just bums on seats. The sports, art, music is far better than at the local state school but I'm not convinced the academics are very special. I'm not convinced the kids who need extra help are getting high quality help and I wonder if they too would be better off in state schools.

Problem is, in most cases everyone wants the best for their kids, for some, it’s about fighting for our kids to access education, for others it’s about ensuring their kids grow up confident and well rounded. For most public school is simply unaffordable and it’s grossly unfair that money enables a free pass to elevate kids. And I know people will say ‘I work hard for it’ etc but carers, bus drivers, teachers, nurses work hard but won’t ever have that choice! And I’m not convinced it’s superior, based on the fact the country is in its waste state in my lifetime based on decisions made by a public school ran government!

All these people saying that there isn't a value in private education.

And why do they believe that Value added tax should be payable on private education is beyond me.

Specialist lessons throughout the day mean teachers have more time to plan and mark within the school day. Teachers are expected to be onsite 8:30 - 4:30/5 , but mostly won’t be working outside of that. Smaller classes, better behaviour and greater flexibility in curriculum are attractive aspects for many teachers.

The level of push will vary by school. Ours is a nonselective ‘nurturing’ sort, but my children are still pushed to do things outside her comfort zone. PE is a good examples where dd is very non sporty, but the school pushes her to participate nd build skills. She will probably never be sporty, but her gross motor skills have come on loads and she has found one sport that she would like to pursue recreationally. I don’t expect that will alter her final career trajectory, but hopefully it will mean she is a bit healthier and maybe has a hobby she can pursue for life.

Yes private schools are more likely to accept children out of cohort.

However it's a really, really bad idea to do this. I was a year ahead and an August birthday, and one of my siblings was almost 3 years ahead (did GCSEs at 13 - all A star, and IB at 15). School is about far more than academics. Both of us had major and multiple breakdowns at university and issues with peer group friendships. My sibling never completed their degree - my parents have always regretted not holding her back.

I know a large number of people who did similar and none of us have happy tales of how we all just sailed through.

Good teachers and good extra curricular should make it possible to do things in cohort that stretch a very academic child.

If I was going to educate outside cohort then I would homeschool instead - it's utterly miserable being a teenager and way younger than your friends.

Also the case that Oxford in particular will generally not take 16 or under for degrees anymore.

Do you mind if I ask which school this was?

@Bushmillsbabe can ask which school your brother went to that offered some sailing and flying lessons as part of PE?

As an outside with no knowledge of private schools it's really hard to try and find which ones are the really good ones that might be worth paying for.

Urgh those posts extolling the lovely healthy virtues of public school boys a few pages back made me feel slightly queasy.

Dd has been in the social orbit of Marlborough boys recently and they have been pretty hideous. Baiting her because she goes to a state school. She has numerous friends from local private schools who are delightful and would never do that in a million years - but the public school boys are a different breed it seems. Absolutely vile.

Also several friends state school sons have girlfriends that attend top name private schools. Girls voting with their feet there. Dd quick to say the girls she hangs out with that attend these top schools are lovely - it’s the boys.

@sheep73 'The sports, art, music is far better than at the local state school but I'm not convinced the academics are very special. I'm not convinced the kids who need extra help are getting high quality help and I wonder if they too would be better off in state schools.'

Did you not look at the exam results and talk to other parents before you chose the school?

One of things that gave me confidence in ds' school is that although it is not selective, they get 100% of pupils through GCSE English and Maths every year. They have a fair % SEN and yet no-one is left to fail. They organise remedial classes for those who are struggling. Different approaches. Mentoring. One to one coaching. Support with exam techniques. Past paper practice. It's really impressive. And kind.

It was one of the things that convinced me they were a good school.

I was in various state schools until I was 16 then one year of private.

Based on my experience, my children have been in - not big name - private since age 3.

TheaBrandt why is your dd spending time with these boys if they are so ‘vile’.?

She comes across them at friends houses / parties in large groups. Friends siblings attend these schools - she doesn’t seek them out. They are like it to each other too - it seems it’s their way (banter?)

You are speaking about a tiny number - I am imagining those types of boys exist in state schools too. You can’t tar half a million children with the actions of a handful that is second hand info and sounds wildly exaggerated at best.

Of course - but no one on this thread is idolising state school boys in a dreamy adoring manner! Even if I had all the money in the world would never send a son of mine to one of those public schools.

Well, there are public schools and there are public schools. Most are minor institutions that nobody has ever heard of outside of the town they are based in. They offer small well behaved classes, very good facilities, some nice extra curricular activities and place a premium on getting a place at a decent uni. The parents who send their kids to these schools for the most part are ‘normal’ insofar as being middle class professional types who do not have money to burn.

Then you get the likes the Eton, Harrow, Marlborough, Charterhouse, Winchester etc. These places cost £50k a year before all the add ons. Yes they offer small classes and excellent facilities too, but you are not attending these schools for that, you are buying membership of an exclusive club and support network that will serve you for the rest of your days. These elite institutions look down on the minor public schools just as much as they do state schools. If you attend one of these schools the chances are your parents have intergenerational wealth. Your massive sense of entitlement that has been nurtured since birth prevents you from working in a normal career, you don’t need a job as such, it is something you do because your folks organised some soft position in the city that has zero accountability and allows you to perfect the skill of falling upwards no matter how much you fuck up. It is these schools that are the problem.

Yep Dulwich College boys are known for this locally too. Alleyns boys totally different.

Obviously not all DC boys, but enough for it to dominate the atmosphere. I have friends with “normal” boys there and they comment on it. Lots of junior Farages.

Absolutely. Worked with some of them in the City. . As I mentioned ( entirely anecdotally I know ) the teens from the local “normal” private schools are gorgeous and delightful. That’s why Dd was so surprised how different the boys from the top public schools were towards her. Dh had the same at Cambridge from some public school boys from the top named schools too.

you don’t need a job as such, it is something you do because your folks organised some soft position in the city that has zero accountability and allows you to perfect the skill of falling upwards no matter how much you fuck up

Sometimes somebody just words something perfectly. This is very very true from my own experience (applies to the megabucks schools though not small local indies)

@thea,

Eton are the absolute worst in that regard (or certainly were).

In my college at Cambridge, everyone rubbed along, from cleaners’ daughters to minor royalty BAR old Etonians, who had their own corner of the buttery where they brayed loudly together.

My local private school King’s College was absolutely slated on Everyone’s Invited too.

To be fair though, some of those boys’ confidence is skin deep and they have no idea how to interact with people outside their immediate circle. Some grow into pleasant adults, others never grow up.