To think unless you’ve been to private school you don’t really understand why it’s so valuable?

[huopp]

I have so many people telling me the state system is fine, a private school just has better facilities, that the teachers aren’t any better, that the extra curricular stuff can be done after school at a state school but at a different venue etc etc…

whilst all the above is true, it isn’t what makes a private education valuable? And that you have to actually have lived it, been to one, to get the whole experience it gives you across the board and not just academically?

i think this is why a lot of people with ‘new money’ don’t always spend it on school fees. In contrast those who have been privately educated mostly want the same for their children.

Dear OP - you sound like a condescending arsehole, to be honest. But I guess unless you have been on the end of many, many condescending, privately educated aresholes, you wouldn't realise how annoying it is.

i could barely afford to feed and clothe my child for a significant number of years so comtemplaing private education simply did not figure in my existence. I do not know a single person who has been privately educated other than a girl who transferred to my all girls' grammar school for reasons that were never specified and was one of the most damaged people I have ever encountered. Given that I only have this minuscule sample I am in no position to say how good or otherwise private education is. However, all my state educated friends and kids are intelligent, well read, engaging people who all work and contribute to society. Then I look at the likes of what some of the privately educated have done to this country and it clearly demonstrates how far the tentacles of privilege grip deeply in society. I cannot imagine a state educated Sunak, Johnson, Rees Mogg etc rising to such heights if they had attended their local state schools.

izimbra applauding your post. It grinds my gears the resentment some private school parents have and the perception of buying your way into a certain state school as a way of gaming the system. Most cities have very mixed demographics close together so there will be all sorts of children in the catchment area not just “million pound houses”. There is a real teacher crisis. Three of dds best teachers from each of get a level subjects left - she came home in tears.

State schools can’t boot out difficult students the way private schools can (and do as happened to a friends daughter recently). And as a good state school there are no contextual offers. So arguably the worst of both worlds! Hope this makes you feel better anyway!

The problem is you can only have one experience of education from the inside unless you aim to time travel back and relive your childhood in the school system you didn't try out first time round. So your ability to make a meaningful comparison will always be limited.

Then add in the particular circumstances of a given pupil with all their foibles and a particular school, whether state or private, and it's almost impossible to say anything definitive.

Frankly a lot depends on the quirk of who is in your year group. My dad as a senior teacher would bemoan certain year groups as being very difficult. A friend that teaches at one of the best regarded private schools in our region said there were certain forms she wouldn’t want her child in. So your experience can be as localised as that.

My children are in state. I am arguing with the wrong people to an extent here because I don’t agree with the concept of private schools but I find it hypocritical of people who can afford to buy their way into good state schools, which you can if you can afford to buy a house in the right area, to deny that they too aren’t buying privilege for their children.

Agree with this totally. My year group was an anomaly as we managed to push the school up into the top 100 for GCSEs apparently for the first time in history - it's doggedly far below that historically. Luckily we were a year without bullying who all got on well together, revised together and didn't think being clever meant you couldn't have a sense of humour. One friend is still in touch with our Maths teacher who even passed on that our year was the most memorable to all of the "old guard". Other years had terrible problems with all sorts of issues - in any school if something becomes a trend it can be devastating if not quickly dealt with.

I agree to an extent but I think it's very dependent on the school.

Some private schools are only better because they are selective and that enables higher academic rigour and the behaviour is much better.
Some use the extra time gained from being able to reach the minimum standards necessary to get good grades at GCSE/A level to offer a much broader curriculum.
Some are designed to be exclusive in order to link up the sons (and to a lesser extent daughters) of powerful people at a young age so that power can be passed though the generations.
Others have small class sizes enabling children who struggle to cope in large, mainstream classes to succeed.
Most, in my experience, have more focus on teaching children to present themselves in a certain way which helps them succeed in interviews, cope in formal situations and so on.

So sorry, missed this question. There was a shift in both my parents finances and the local school situation between the older two (private) and younger two (state). the two private also went to somewhat different schools: one highly academic focused/selective; the other less so.
Nothing to do with individual academics.

From my knowledge, I’d say that - of the four of us - the two brightest/most academically successful were 1 x state and 1x private; the two most successful in financial terms are 1 x state and 1 x private; the two happiest are 1 x state and 1 x private - obv that spreads across the four of us, no one person wins all, but probably the most academically and financially successful overall is state educated.

hence my feeling that family influence (I’m from a family that highly values education and academic achievement) has more of an impact than the schools per se.

Absolutely this..I worked in a private school where they dithered and actually put the kids, ALL the kids' safety at risk because they were too scared to close off part of the school for fear of the parent's reaction at having to relocate the annual carol concert from the historic hall. I kid you not. I could not in good conscience as a mother myself continue working there. It was run by absolute morons. Also as an aside the one family member who went private behaves like a cocky little shit and is in a job which anyone could have as requires no real skills apart from cold calling, drives around in a fairly crap convertible like he's the bees knees but still expects handouts from his parents because he has always been mollycoddled through society..he has an over inflated sense of ego rather than real confidence. I want my ds to be independent and know how to interact with and respect all members of society, well it just so happens that 93 percent of society attends state schools..Ultimately though I just want him to be happy, he is not an extension of myself and I don't want to brag about his achievements or try to live vicariously through him. I'll support him along the way but no pressure to be academic it sporty etc. Not everyone will fit the private school mold!

Having done every possible combo of school at every stage between me and my 3 siblings and all our children, this is utter nonsense.

Even with my DD, I looked at around 20 secondaries for her - from big name Public boarding schools, vocational schools, rural comps, city comps, and privately educated DH and mix-of-everything-educated me made the decision to send her to a state school, because that particular school offered the best package for her interests, academic level, SEN and IQ.

i grew up overseas but my husband went to state. He is adamant we will send our kids to private unless we are in an area with a good state/grammar school. Not just for the opportunities it offers but because of his experiences in school where learning and being smart was looked down on and bullied out of anyone who tried. Also he spent his entire education in temporary container buildings. Tbh I object to the private/state divide because I think kids from private schools just get the upper hand in so many ways. That said, when it comes to my own children, I’d want to give them every chance to excel. I’ve got a lot of friends who are very well rounded who went to private schools so I don’t think private schools necessarily produce wankers.

If only that were true. Public schoolboys have THE WORST haircuts, its a mixture of wanting to look 'street' (and not like they are called Ivo, Inigo, Hugo or Milo), and being away from parental supervision during term time. There are exceptions, of course. But you'll see more mullets and buzz cuts on the playing fields of Eton than in your average comprehensive.

Absolutely, and all State school boys have shaved heads and are called Jaxxon, Tyler or Keiran/on

I'm sorry, @huopp but it's just a silly statement. There's huge disparity between state and state, private and private. Lots of privately educated people decide they don't want or need the same for their children. Lots of state educated people are very clear that they do want it. Whether it's worth it or not is about the realistic alternatives available to each family.

@Hoppinggreen in schools with strict or archaic dress codes hair may be the only available rebellion against embarassing poshness. It doesn't work though if everyone is aiming for the same look.

But Ivo, Hugo and Milo all have that same look of well kept, healthy energy and appearance with not a tattoo or piecing in sight, usually wearing expensive clothing and average to slim build, so even the worst hair cuts ( boys have been sent home for less) somehow it just looks fun and fresh and not menacing. The kid’s themselves look untroubled and open faced, there isn’t a sinister edge. Obv some state schools will have similar children.

What a load of shit.

No school child will have tattoos anyway....posh or common.

What an absolute load of waffle. Utter tripe.

What makes a 'good' school?

The comprehensive I took my daughter out of has one of the highest progress 8 scores in the country, and an outstanding OFSTED. It has 33% of children on FSM. Many middle class local parents wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

My children's primary, where all 3 of my children went has 45% of children on FSM and an outstanding OFSTED.

So can I ask you - what's the difference between an 'Outstanding' school with high progress 8 scores and a third of the kids on FSM, and a school with an average progress 8 score, where less than half that amount are on FSM? Because by your reckoning the latter is a better school.

Are you saying your local secondary school is a 'bad' school because it has many poor and low achieving pupils? What's the progress 8 score?

Really? That’s not my experience

Yep, just as a underperforming comprehensive in a deprived area is going to be very different to a selective state grammar school in a leafy area, a tiny non-selective fee-paying school with no playground or facilities is a very different proposition to Roedean or Winchester.

We all know the value of an Eton education (although you have to be extremely rich already to benefit from the social connections).

I am less convinced of the benefits of killing yourself to scrape together the money to send your child to the badly performing under-subscribed fee-paying school with no facilities, or even a stressful academic hothouse full of girls with eating disorders (I’ve been to both) over a decent state option.

@blueshoes I was actually replying to the poster who told me that I was only using boarding school info and that day school fees were less (the figure I quoted was what they gave me) and then pointing out that even day schools have far higher contact hours with children than state.

Unless of course there are hundreds of days schools that finish at 3.15, don't run extracurricular clubs, sports teams or weekend activities/sport on a Saturday. In which case I stand corrected, but all the private day schools in my area provide exactly that. I boarded (6th form) and went to a non boarding private school and I wouldn't send my kids to either.

Girls schools can be an excellent choice for studious academic girls in the same way Eton can work beautifully for some, not all, boys. Isn’t that the point? You can choose the school that suits the child.

You have to be extremely wealthy to go to any of these options and most will offer above and beyond in comparison to any state school. Yes there are poor examples, I doubt they will survive the changes of a new Labour government though…

I worked in the nearest hospital to a very expensive public school for a while and treated my fair share of those delightful fresh faced fun young men. Obviously they can't be taken as representative of all public schoolboys but I experienced far more rudeness and misogyny from many of them than from their peers in the local state schools. They could definitely be menacing and plenty were far from untroubled. Different troubles from the local kids maybe, but troubled all the same.