To think unless you’ve been to private school you don’t really understand why it’s so valuable?

[huopp]

I have so many people telling me the state system is fine, a private school just has better facilities, that the teachers aren’t any better, that the extra curricular stuff can be done after school at a state school but at a different venue etc etc…

whilst all the above is true, it isn’t what makes a private education valuable? And that you have to actually have lived it, been to one, to get the whole experience it gives you across the board and not just academically?

i think this is why a lot of people with ‘new money’ don’t always spend it on school fees. In contrast those who have been privately educated mostly want the same for their children.

@Hatfullofwillow there are less bands at degree level though - I got 1% below a first, 2:1. You could ask my peers who also got 2:1 and they all thought I knew more then them and put in more work (they were all shocked how close I was and sad for me, probably more worried than I was). Having the same result just means you roughly all know the same thing as a large group of people. I could quote citations and consistently got 70+ in every topic, some of the 2:1 in my cohort repeated multiple topics. Uni results don't factor any of this in. You can see which group go on to do further studies though...

My son left his comprehensive last year with A star AA in maths, further maths and physics. He was 4 marks off an A star* *in his physics exam and was half way up the A grade band for further maths.

The school really struggled with lab access for its A level STEM students - it had taken on so many additional pupils to cover rising costs and staff salaries (so many that it was teaching kids in tents in the car park). His A level class did get an opportunity a couple of times to use the labs at the absolutely palatial private school (1/2 the number of students on a site 4 times the size, multi-million pound state of the art new science block) right next door to it, but it just wasn't enough.

His school also struggled to recruit STEM staff - his physics teacher was 72 years old and commuting in from Birmingham to teach A level classes. My son came home after his first few lessons and said his teacher told the class he'd had such a bad case of COVID he often couldn't remember his children's names, and couldn't remember how to turn his laptop on. Bless him though, he still did a good job, but my son definitely had more cancelled lessons, less teaching time and less lab time than he would have had at a fee paying school. I think had he been at a private school he would have likely come out with at least A star A star* A, if not three A's. Never mind though, he loves his university and is getting on well with his course. His girlfriend, who's also doing an MEng, went to a top private school but isn't getting on any better than he is. He's a very, very independent learner and very mature - he's had to be - and that's really helping him now

I agree with you, they are far more confident.

Haven't RTFT but I went to a state primary, private secondary, and state 6th form (attached to a state secondary).
The teaching quality and methods were the same, if not better, in the state secondary from what I saw.
There were many issues in my private school which were left unchecked, especially bullying from certain pupils whose parents donated (more) money to the school.
I wish I'd gone to a state secondary and if I ever had kids they sure as hell would be going to one too.

Are you sure you were 1% off a 1st? Because if you had 69% and were one of my students, given what you've said about your overall performance, you'd have been automatically considered for a 1st and likely awarded it if your dissertation was a 1st.

Unless your 69% was actually a 68.5 rounded up, I'd say you were hard done by there.

I went through the state system. My kids went private (seniors not prep) because of that. Everyone’s state experience is different but mine was horrible. It did colour my view. I’ve never regretted sending them to private but if the state school had been good I’d have considered it.

It won’t ever happen though. You could get rid of all the private schools (not sure how they’d handle the public schools) and it won’t improve the state system. Not because it can’t be improved but because the ptb won’t do it.

It’s not the networking that gets private school children into the top jobs, as this practice is very rare now, but the confidence to believe they can do it, surrounded by the others that are shining examples and expectations that they can do whatever they set their minds to.

The old boys network is more or less dismantled but what stlll exists are family members, friends etc that are hugely successful - ofc it’s harder if you don’t have that - my dh didn’t - at all, and really had to work at as a young man. Same with me. Talented and bright kids really do have the chance to choose, and once in uni
will have the same peers and guidance. Self belief should be instilled in every child, and encouragement to broaden horizons, travel, mix with all classes, don’t be that parent that won’t talk to a ‘Tory’ or whatever - it’s so limiting to grow up in a narrow world view. Let them expand and grow.

My children went to a highly, highly oversubscribed state school (in the top 10 non-selective state schools) in a road where not a single property was worth less than a million quid.

First off the school STILL had 13% of children on free school meals, and still took in large numbers of low and middle achieving children, including children who were highly disruptive.

And the school had 7.5K to educate each one of those children. The private school next door charges 8.8K PER TERM.

Please stop with this nonsense of claiming parity of provision and intake between even the most popular and over subscribed state schools with private schools. It's absolute nonsense.

State schools have an obligation to design admission procedures that reduce the impact of selection by postcode, and many of the most popular state schools are doing this to the best of their ability by using fair banding and lottery admissions procedures. There's also a strong rationale against academic and religious selection on grounds of evening up the educational playing field. But the narrative that there's just as much of a gap in quality of provision between state schools as there is between state and private - just not true.

I have lots of friends who have been to private school. Only one had a good experience 😬

I'm in Scotland so but different to the English system I believe. Most kids here go to the catchment school and that is that.

However I have a nephew who went to a prestigious Edinburgh private school. He is now 18 and no better educated than my niece who went to the normal school.

His dad just has more money. Simple as that.

I've been both private school and state school educated (state primary, private secondary school, state sixth form). I enjoyed myself infinitely more in the state school system, as the selective private girls' school I went to was stuffy and dull, and I preferred being in mixed classes. I don't think the private education I received was particularly special - I did get A grades in nearly all my GCSEs but same was true of A-levels. That said, I did arrive at sixth form with more discipline and knowledge of how to pass exams than my state-educated peers. But the differences weren't huge tbh (although this could be because my friends at sixth form were just a pretty smart group, for the most part).

There are great state schools and rubbish ones. You shouldn't assume just because your local school is good that they all are. People also choose private schools for all sorts of other reasons too e.g. because friends go there, their child needs additional attention, better sports facilities etc.

I've been to both and seen the pros and cons of both. The private school was all girls and very academic. Coming from a fairly progressive and free mixed primary school, it was quite a shock, and I found it quite challenging. But it put me well ahead academically for when I went to a state school. TBH, the state school suited me better, but I suspect I would have done better academically at the private school.

I hope these responses have been an eye opener for you OP. Time to become more open minded.

@izimbra thank you for answering my question.

OP won't be back, dumped and ran.

Or you know half the cabinet and at least 3 former prime ministers. Forget political leaning just competence

@hettie just Tory prime ministers or all prime ministers?
I’m presuming re ‘3 former prime ministers’ you mean since the turn of this century?
Up until 1960s most prime ministers were privately educated.

Are you really claiming that nepotism no longer exists!? 😆

Well phew, glad that issue’s out the way then 😅

I did a (paid) corporate internship in London a few years back, and the guy who had been there previously was the kid of the programme director’s friend. Apparently he spent 6 months looking at the BBC website. (I guess easy come, easy go!) While I was there I also witnessed members of senior management saying yeah we can get him something – send over his CV – about someone’s nephew. And people most definitely connect via their school and university networks.

I’m not saying it’s the be all and end all – but to deny it’s not a thing is daft.

Short answer - nonsense!

I was privately educated for the first 7 years.

I strongly preferred the local (admittedly selective) grammar school to the abusive practices I was exposed to in private education.

I must however also admit that I learned a lot in terms of speaking, presentation and appearing confident which some of my state school peers seemed to lack 🤔 but that also corresponds to a certain amount innate talent in my case. Or it might be due to my extracurricular activities, which I kept up through high school…

but I am still friends with my seat mate from first grade (she’s my maid of honour!) and I am extremely grateful to have met her!

I went to school in Switzerland, btw.

I think the OP disproves any point about how private schools produce superior results. But it does prove a point about how they enable a two tier society, one based on 'us' and 'them'.

I went to private school and neither I, nor any of the 3 friends I'm still in touch with from school, send our children to private school.

And, yes, we could all afford it.

A better question is not "if private school more valuable than state?" but "is the money I could spend on private education worth more than other things I might spend the money on?" If the "other things" are supporting a child through university or providing a house deposit or paying into pensions as opposed to having none, then I'd argue it would have to be a great private school and really poor state alternative to say "yes".

If you have the money for the other things anyway (as many private school parents do) then it's a different sort of question.

The people I know who have done best career wise were considered class clowns or dreamers and basically didn't care about or do well in education. They tended to just have a strong skill in one area and were able to turn that into their career.

Should also add that I had employers literally say to me openly in interview – yes one of the reasons we asked you in was your school (I went to a grammar school that comes in the top 20 nationally).

So people definitely do pay attention, and in the case of private schools (financial/class) elitism and closed networks no doubt do perpetuate themselves.

I would really like some people on here to have to send their children to our local secondary school and then to say that there isn’t a big gap between state schools. Maybe it’s “nonsense” in mumsnet world but there is a big wide world out there, in schools where only 13% children on free school meals is amazing and the school considers it a good year if more than 30% get a grade 5 or above in maths and English GCSE. Fair banding and lottery admissions don’t exist here because it’s a rural area where many children have to travel miles to and from their local school each day on school buses and the logistics of travelling elsewhere wouldn’t work. It isn’t a “narrative”, it’s a fact.