STEINER WALDORF SCHOOLS AND INSTITUTIONS #2

[zzooey]

The steiner waldorf thread ran to a halt because apparently a 1000 messages are a maximum. Let's continue here!!

"Have you ever heard of Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris?
Of course, I wouldn't have expected it to have reached Sweden where you are, apart from widely red europhiles like Zooey,, but here in UK it's alive and kicking, causing quite a stirr."

Naturally, I have read all three of them Though, if I'm right, Harris is american, and Hitchens lives in the US now.

And it's not like prominent British atheism is new - think Bertrand Russell.

Sweden has had a some very important atheists too, and atheism is still very much alive and kicking. In particular since one or two doofus creationists have been starting to show their ugly faces in public. They should be exposed and fought. As should the hidden meanings of anthroposophical occult rituals.

DianaW again:

"Is the slaying of the dragon at Michaelmas by St. Michael in September an anthroposophical ritual?"

Try reading again what I just wrote on this.

"Why does it make you squirm to be asked for simple answers to simple questions about Steiner and his institutions?"

"His institutions"? He's been dead for 80 years. Almost all Waldorf schools world wide were founded as independent activities more or less long after his death.

Maybe you mean:

"Do you now, or have you ever, heard differences between loudspeaker cables?" (Sorry, that was the question by the Secretary of the WC. It should have been: )

"Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party (... sorry, the Anthroposophical Society) of the United States?"

"And have you ever heard them talk about St Michael, or not?"

Well, Sir, I've met some people who belong to that society and think I have heard one of them talk of Justice and Freedom and Solidarity and how this can be achieved by fighting Capitalism. I've also heard him say that this is what St Michael supports and works for.

Is this true?? Do they say that?? Will you put me in prison for this now, Sir ...?-)

"Cosmic intelligence- there you are bee- do you want some cosmic intelligence?"

That sounded a bit like "what?! what!? do you want to give me an astral punch in the face!!?"

Sometimes I think, with anthroposophists, any intelligence would do. They don't seem to define intelligence the way I do though.

" Michael brought about a tremendous revolution in the spiritual worlds, and with this he revealed the new mystery which inspires consciousness on earth in the form of Anthroposophy. Its content is the renewal of the awareness of the mysteries of nature and of karma or human destiny. Souls drawn to this school have a special relationship to thinking, with a powerful resolve for Truth. "Inner Development 7 lectures by Valentin Tomberg

"Almost all Waldorf schools world wide were founded as independent activities more or less long after his death."

Nope. That's like saying Jesus isn't important to christians because almost all churches were built and all congregations were formed after Jesus died, and almost all church ceremonies have taken place long after his death.

Just like christians like jesus, anthroposophists like Steiner (and jesus and michael, but lets not complicate things now).

You see how ridiculous such a claim would be.

Hey Zooey- I knew you knew all those books !!!
Of course.
Polly toynbee writes for the Guardian, and is great.
AC Grayling is intersting too.
You've read them
I doubt bee has taken his nose out of his ... something or other to read anything other than chat boards and people discussing Steiner's cult.
he ca.t have much in his life but that...

"Well, Sir, I've met some people who belong to that society and think I have heard one of them talk of Justice and Freedom and Solidarity and how this can be achieved by fighting Capitalism. I've also heard him say that this is what St Michael supports and works for.

Is this true?? Do they say that?? Will you put me in prison for this now, Sir ...?-)"

S:t Michael may support anything he wants in his sparetime, but should keep his political or religious visions some place else, and not in schools. I encourage S:t Michael to continue his fight for justice, freedom and solidarity, in any way he wishes, as long as he doesn't indoctrinate kids.

In particular I can't support this S:t Michael being in schools indoctrinating kids on the evils of capitalism. I'm sure lot's of parents would find such an indoctrination during school hours to be repulsive.

You do seem quite obsessed with anthroposophy and St Michael, and how Steiner saw him.

Is Michaelmas at Waldorf schools an "anthroposophical" ritual to in secret indoctrinate with anthroposophy?

Try reading this again.

The ritual isn't secret as such - I'm sure parents know there is a ritual/play with a dragon in the late fall - the real meaning of it is, however.

Do you stalk people around the net?

Can't you see yourself?

Can't you see the obsessed person here?

"fighting Capitalism."

Some of the anthroposophists i know are the most capitalistic I've ever come accross.

At Camphill, they discuss their holidays in the carribean at this very moment.

Some of anthroposhy's movements are therichest charities in UK. Theres some info here about that
[[http://www.chaseuk.info/AnthroposophyUKaPreliminaryReport.html anthropsophy and money making}}

As in all cults, only the few get the spoils....

anthroposophy and money making

Just as a side note:

"this school" in what xxxxx writes above does not refer to Waldorf schools or one Waldorf school.

And BTW, non-sectarian blessings, xxxxx :-)! (off topic teaser))

"Can't you see the obsessed person here?"

Not to worry, xxxxx, I see you. All over the place.

We former parents and students of Steiner are here sharing our experiences.

Do you, Thebee, have any personal experience
of Steiner education, because this thread is one of the weirdest I have ever been on. It feels like a bunch of living, breathing human beings having a debate with an automaton.

"We former parents and students of Steiner are here sharing our experiences."

That's not the main content of this thread.

"Do you, Thebee, have any personal experience of Steiner education"

Yes.

"It feels like a bunch of living, breathing human beings having a debate with an automaton."

I'd more say obsessive and in part hysterical persons repeatedly asking hundreds of more or less paranoid questions and demanding that I answer them.

That's not a debate. It's a mob.

If we sound obsessive and hysterical it's because we're angry at being deceived about our children's education.

Thank you for that simple 'yes' in answer to my last question.

Please would you give us some inkling of your experience? Were you a Waldorf pupil?
Were/are you a teacher?

Everyone else on this thread has laid their cards on the table about their experience of Steiner education.

If you could give some simple, human answers you would encounter a lot less hostility, I promise you. We were respectful towards Wabbit and Stripeymama - both pro-Steiner because they shared their experiences, rather than 'preaching'.

"I thought I find a nice little Steiner quote on this Michael... but look, well... there's an infinite number of quotes..."

Oh, gracious, if you start looking for "Michael" quotes in anthroposophy it is like fleas on a dog. I deliberately picked pretty much the central-most figure in anthroposophy (outside of Steiner himself, that is). That bee won't answer even the obvious questions about anthroposophy is my point.

Zooey:

"Nope. That's like saying Jesus isn't important to christians because almost all churches were built and all congregations were formed after Jesus died, and almost all church ceremonies have taken place long after his death."

LOL!

"Just like christians like jesus, anthroposophists like Steiner (and jesus and michael, but lets not complicate things now)."

Anthroposophists aren't really particularly interested in Jesus. They quote Steiner: Jesus, well the ratio is probably about 80:1 - 80 mentions of Steiner for every time you'd catch an anthroposophist getting excited about Jesus. Not their thing. Steiner's the man.

"Is Michaelmas at Waldorf schools an "anthroposophical" ritual to in secret indoctrinate with anthroposophy?

Try reading this again."

No try answering that question.

"Is St. Michael a principal figure in anthroposophy?" is a mob attacking you?

And I will point out again that he was online at the time I was posting those questions last night - he answered one of them with the usual reams of links and quotes of smooth talk from other web sites. He answered it after the list of simple questions was posted. Then he had to go to bed. And he has not gone back to it today.

It's interesting that while I'm personally considered a member of a "hate group," I've never in my whole life ever sued anyone or threatened anyone with a lawsuit, nor have I ever told anyone online that I would like to punch them if I met them in person. (or anyone in real life, either.) Nor have I ever once complained to the administrators of a web site about another poster, asked them to remove someone, tried to have someone else's posts removed, or tried to make the web site owners be afraid somebody would sue them if they didn't close a discussion etc. Nor have I ever tried to trace another user's computer. Nor have I used someone's name in public who has explicitly asked for privacy to protect her small children from unpleasantness at their school or in their community.

So who's a hate group again?

Actually, that's not quite true. I asked the moderators of the anthroposophy_tomorrow list to remove some anti-Semitic postings (serious hateful racist garbage) from their list last December, fearing it was literally inciteful, and so disgusting it was stomach turning. My request was denied and I was removed instead.

And I asked Dan on the critics list about a year ago to remove a person named Valerie Walsh who was sending reams of irrelevant junk to the list on purpose to spam it - dozens of posts a day just to sabotage it. So in the interests of honesty it is not quite true that I've never asked the admin of a web site to remove someone.