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Education

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STEINER WALDORF SCHOOLS AND INSTITUTIONS #2

1001 replies

zzooey · 05/04/2008 19:37

The steiner waldorf thread ran to a halt because apparently a 1000 messages are a maximum. Let's continue here!!

OP posts:
Yurtgirl · 24/04/2008 15:11

The cambridge steiner school was featured on the jeremy vine r2 show today - all about the incident powerofjoy was referring to - 12year olds being offered a cigeratte in class. The teacher has been disciplined but not sacked. Two families have removed their children.

TBH the bit that shocked me most was the £7000 pa school fees!

northernrefugee39 · 24/04/2008 17:06

Oh look, in from Comets to cocaine! This is the reason for the teacher encouraging smoking, to show that the heart isn't a pump!

"Through nicotine, an increased, stronger activity of the heart is called forth. The heart is not a pump, however, but only reflects what goes on in the body: the heart beats faster when the blood circulates faster. " Rudolf Steiner

Good grief! £7000! Crikey!

We went to michael hall for The Olympics, and it always struck me as a Hippy Public school lite.
At the school ours were at you paid 6% of your income, and if you had no income, it was free.

zzooey · 24/04/2008 20:16

Maybe she wanted to illustrate the spiritual air:

"It is a spiritual air that you could cut with a knife, as in some meeting-rooms where everyone is smoking his pipe or his cigar like a chimney-pot, and you say ?it is an air that you could cut with a knife.?" (Steiner: Entry of the michael age)

OP posts:
barking · 25/04/2008 12:42

well I never thought I would say this but I've contacted the Daily Mail on the back of the smoking story and directed them here....

PeteK · 25/04/2008 16:54

"The insect mysteriously disappeared again. How come?!"

Could be MEASLES...

barking · 25/04/2008 17:09

Oh PeteK
Though I don't think measles would stop him....

PeteK · 25/04/2008 22:17

You think he's having another one of his nervous breakdowns? At least he didn't threaten to punch anyone this time...

I'll try to harvest another page from his website this evening...

zzooey · 25/04/2008 22:55

Maybe Ahriman gave his computer measles. According to the principle of curing like with like, or what it's called, I can never remember. Cure crap with crap?

Perhaps he's getting really desperate. There's waldorf criticism everywhere. I've been having a really great internet conversation with a couple of other Swedes during the past days. The dysfunctional anthro world is revealed, and its not pretty.

OP posts:
ShirleyGhostman · 25/04/2008 23:24

You are all quite mad!

ShirleyGhostman · 25/04/2008 23:26

Tell me PeteK did you manage to find your way to Amarillo?

PeteK · 26/04/2008 01:28

Amarillo? I have a cousin who's from Taxes.

Powerofjoy2004 · 26/04/2008 07:33

I once sat next to a professional dancer at a eurythmy performance. She kept muttering, "Why can't they get their feet up off the ground?"

Janni · 26/04/2008 10:13

generally parents have not seen eurythmy classes and assume they are this wonderful, specialised form of movement - particularly as children with 'problems' are often prescribed either art therapy or 'curative eurythmy'

I was forced to watch a couple of performances as a parent helper on trips to Steiner House and have rarely endured more boring, turgid stuff..Lots of the kids fell asleep or messed around. It was AWFUL!

PeteK · 26/04/2008 15:42

Curative Eurythmy, yes, Anthroposphists believe Eurythmy is so "poweful" that performing specific movements can cure illness and do other magical stuff like straighten teeth. Assuming for a moment that that's nonsense - if they BELIEVE it is that powerful, don't Waldorf teachers have an OBLIGATION to let parents in on this? If they believe they are providing an activity to children that is making anatomical changes to them (beyond exercise) - shouldn't parents be told of their INTENTIONS? It simply is immoral to not disclose these beliefs if you are applying them to other people's children without their knowledge.

It's the spiritual equivalent of Waldorf teachers using voodoo dolls on children - sure nobody cares that Eurythmy doesn't "work" - but parents are usually VERY CONCERNED about teachers who believe in this stuff when they are teaching it to their children behind their backs.

PeteK · 26/04/2008 17:18

Here's Steiner on physiology:

"In the Negro the rear-brain is especially developed. It goes through his
spinal cord. And this is able to assimilate all the light and warmth that
are inside a person. Therefore everything connected to the body and the
metabolism is strongly developed in the Negro. He has, as they say, powerful
physical drives. The Negro has a powerful instinctual life. And because he
actually has the sun, light, and warmth on his body surface, in his skin,
his whole metabolism operates as if he were being cooked inside by the sun.
That is where his instinctual life comes from. The Negro is constantly
cooking inside, and what feeds this fire is his rear-brain."

Rudolf Steiner, ?Farbe und Menschenrassen?, lecture in Dornach March 3, 1923, in Steiner, Vom Leben des Menschen und der Erde,
Dornach 1993, p. 55)

When ideas fail, words come in very handy. - Goethe

PeteK · 26/04/2008 17:21

Remarks by Rudolf Steiner on Left-handedness

Conferences with Waldorf School Teachers (GA 300a,b,c)
Translated by Robert F. Lathe and Nancy Parsons Whittaker

June 14, 1920

A teacher asks about left- handed writing.

Dr. Steiner: In general, you will find that those children who have spiritual tendencies can write with either the left or right hand without trouble, but those children with materialistic tendencies will become addled if they are allowed to write with both hands. Right-handedness occurs for a reason. In this materialistic age, left-handed children will become addled if they use both hands alternately. Under certain circumstances, that is something very questionable to do, particularly in things related to reasoning but it is not a problem in drawing. You can allow the children to draw with both hands.

May 10, 1922

A music teacher asks about working with both hands in the beginning piano class.

Dr. Steiner: That is a very good question. Left-handedness is easily corrected through piano practice. We need to keep that in mind. Left-handedness should always be corrected. However, we should pay attention to the temperament of the child. Thus, we should give preference to the right hand with melancholics. You will easily find they have a tendency to play with the left hand. With cholerics, you should give preference to the left hand. With phlegmatics, you should see that they use both hands in balance, and the same is the case for sanguine children. That is what is important and should be the goal.

It is also advantageous, if you attempt as far as possible to see that the children do not have a mere mechanical feeling about piano playing, but that they also learn to "feel" the keys. They should learn for themselves the different positions on the piano, above and below, right and left. It is also good, at least at the beginning, to have the children play without written music.

May 25, 1923

A teacher: Should the children be broken of left-handedness?

Dr. Steiner: In general, yes. At the younger ages, approximately before the age of nine, you can accustom left-handed children to right-handedness at school. You should not do that only if it would have a damaging effect, which is very seldom the case. Children are not a sum of things, but exponentially complicated. If you attempt to create symmetry between the right and left with the children, and you exercise both hands in balance, that can lead to weak mindedness later in life.

The phenomenon of left-handedness is clearly karmic, and, in connection with karma, it is one of karmic weakness. Allow me to give an example: A person who was overworked in their previous life, so that they did too much, not only physically or intellectually, but, in general, spiritually, within their soul or feeling, will enter the succeeding life with an intense weakness. That person will be incapable of overcoming the karmic weakness located in the lower human being. (The part of the human being that results from the life between death and a new birth is particularly concentrated in the lower human being, whereas the part that comes from the previous Earthly life is concentrated more in the head.) Thus, what would otherwise be strongly developed becomes weak, and the left leg and left hand are particularly relied upon as a crutch. The preference for the left hand results in a situation where, instead of the left, the right side of the brain is used in speech.

If you give into that too much, then that weakness may perhaps remain for a later, that is, a third Earthly life. If you do not give in, then the weakness is brought into balance.

If you make a child do everything equally well with the right and left hand, writing, drawing, work and so forth, then the inner human being will be neutralized. Then the I and the astral body are so far removed that the person becomes quite lethargic later in life. Without any intervention, the etheric body is stronger toward the left than the right, and the astral body is more developed toward the right than the left. That is something you may not ignore; you should pay attention to that. However, we may not attempt a simple mechanical balance. The most naive thing you can do is to have as a goal that the children should work with both hands equally well. A desire for a balanced development of both hands arises from today's complete misunderstanding of the nature of the human being.

The Renewal of Education (GA 301)

Translated by Robert F. Lathe and Nancy Parsons Whittaker

May 7, 1920

[The following remarks were made by Rudolf Steiner during a series of lectures to an audience of public school teachers in Basel, Switzerland. The remarks deal primarily with the question of ambidexterity. As such, they appear to echo Dr. Sonia Setzer's comments above.]

Now I come to a question I have often been asked and that has some significance, namely, the question of left-handedness or ambidexterity.

Right-handedness has become general human habit that we use for writing and other tasks. It is certainly appropriate to extend that by making the left hand, in a sense, more dexterous. That has a certain justification. When we discuss such things, however, our discussion will bear fruit only if we have some deeper insight into the conditions of human life. When we move into a period in which the entire human being should be awakened, when we move into a period in which, in addition to the capacities for abstraction that are so well developed today, the feeling for culture and a capacity to feel as well as act would play a role, we will be able to speak quite differently about many questions than we can now. If education continues as it is today, so that people are always stuck in abstractions (materialism is precisely what is stuck in abstractions) and education does not help us to understand the material through the spiritual then, after a time, you will become convinced that teaching people to use both hands for writing will trap them in a kind of mental weakness. That results in part from how we are today as human beings, and how we presently use the right hand to a much greater extent than the left. The fact that the whole human being is not completely symmetrically formed also plays a part, particularly in regard to certain organs. When we use both hands to write, for example, this has a deep effect upon the entire human organism.

I would not speak about such things had I not done considerable research in this area and had I not tried, for example, to understand what it means to use the left hand. When people develop a capacity for observing the human being, they will be able to determine through experimenting what it means to use the left hand. When human beings reach a certain level of independence of the spirit and soul from the physical body, it is good to use the left hand; but the dependence of modern people upon the physical body causes a tremendous revolution in the physical body itself when the left hand is used in the same manner, for example, in writing, as the right. One of the most important points in this regard is that this would stress the right side of the body, the right side of the brain, beyond what modern people can normally tolerate. When people have been taught according to the methods and educational principles we have discussed here, then they may also be ambidextrous. In modern society, we may not simply go on to using both hands. These are things I can say from experience. Statistics would certainly support what I have said today.

willow · 26/04/2008 17:39

Out of curiosity, but do any of you actually post anywhere else on this site, or are you simply using MN as an online chat room for your Steiner V Not Steiner rows, because you have nowhere else to go?

willow · 26/04/2008 17:47

Thought not.

PeteK · 26/04/2008 17:47

"Out of curiosity, but do any of you actually post anywhere else on this site, or are you simply using MN as an online chat room for your Steiner V Not Steiner rows, because you have nowhere else to go?"

I don't post elsewhere on this site - but I post elsewhere on other sites about all different topics (unrelated to Waldorf). I'm at this site for the Waldorf discussions. Does that concern you?

willow · 26/04/2008 17:50

Just think it rather unusual that you have all appeared, as if by magic. Did the word go out that you could all meet up online here - is there a Steiner hotline for this sort of thing?

willow · 26/04/2008 18:05

It's a bit hard to miss these threads, tbh, as they constantly appear in capitals in the active convo's list - so came to see what all the fuss was about. Am just curious as I don't recall a bunch of members who have ever been so singularly focused.

willow · 26/04/2008 18:05

It's a bit hard to miss these threads, tbh, as they constantly appear in capitals in the active convo's list - so came to see what all the fuss was about. Am just curious as I don't recall a bunch of members who have ever been so singularly focused.

barking · 26/04/2008 18:08

I've been on mumsnet for about 5 years, I post on most topics and changed my name for steiner threads
I hope you understand why

PeteK · 26/04/2008 18:17

"It's a bit hard to miss these threads, tbh, as they constantly appear in capitals in the active convo's list - so came to see what all the fuss was about. Am just curious as I don't recall a bunch of members who have ever been so singularly focused."

Yes, I understand. Sorry about the CAPS - I don't know how to fix that but if it bothers you - perhaps you should let the OP know not to use CAPS in future thread titles. I can't address the "active convo's list" issue because I'm not familiar with this site. Is it annoying to others on MN that this thread is so active? I didn't realize this might be an issue for people here.

Regarding the participants in this thread, it's a controversial topic (I know, it shouldn't be)... so you will see very polarized views expressed here. Some of us know each other from other forums - sure - just like I'm sure you are familiar with posters here and elsewhere. On one side of this issue - the only thing that "connects" the posters here is their experiences with a particular school system. On the other side, we have people defending their faith/philosophy/guru etc. So there is indeed a sense of focus by both "sides", but for different reasons.

I'm sorry if our participation here has distressed you.

Pete

DianaW · 26/04/2008 18:37

"Just think it rather unusual that you have all appeared, as if by magic. Did the word go out that you could all meet up online here - is there a Steiner hotline for this sort of thing?"

It's called the Internet? Do you use email?

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