STEINER WALDORF SCHOOLS AND INSTITUTIONS #2

[zzooey]

The steiner waldorf thread ran to a halt because apparently a 1000 messages are a maximum. Let's continue here!!

We looked through some more of my daughter's Waldorf lesson books tonight. Here's a brilliant statement. Obviously the teacher wrote this on the blackboard because everything in the books was copied off the blackboard, including the pictures.

"Wind, sometimes blow hard, sometimes soft, and sometimes not at all."

If it's not blowing, it's not wind. Perhaps Anthroposophists think it's a supernatural being so that it exists whether it's blowing or not.

The picture of Zooey being dragged to school by an anthroposophist and then giving up just breaks my heart. Zooey, I really feel that. And all your years of misey and frustration, for a child, it's so dificult. To feel safe, children try to comply.
My middle daughter said "I've just given up Mum" about a month before we took them out. I wish we'd done it so much earlier.
She also said she thought her teacher had given upon her.
A nine yr old kid.

Zzooey - I'm so sorry. No wonder you're angry about it all!

I think my sons' school was a lot less extreme than what you describe - they went quite willingly , which is why, for a long time, I thought it was OK and better than the alteratives.

Zooey, it made me sad to think of all the misery Waldorf caused you when you were just a young child. I'm sorry you went through all that.

Margaret

Look, part of the problem with this dissussion is everyone in it comes form different countries and even different generations. At the moment where I live in the UK, I have a choice between keystage 1 (homework, testing and endless mindless factsheets from age 4), homeschooling (not for me), expensive private schools and a few years of a Steiner KG. I've gone for the latter.

I ignore all anthroposophical advice (I think it's reactionary and outdated) and let my kids watch tv, not have a nature table, we sing no blessings etcetc I even do maths and literacy worksheets at home with them which they love because they never see them at school. But I do think I'm between a rock and a hard place and that for all its problems, my kids are still better off coming home at 1 after a morning of play (even if my five year old son has to endure ringtime - trial by blandness)

Once they're ready for school I'll move them in. Don't feel guilty, guys. You all (I'm sure) did what you thought was best, and God knows, it's an impossibly hard decision and when it wasn't working, you left

I don't feel guilty, I feel pissed off that early years education is in such a poor state that I feel compelled to seek out strange alternatives.

As for you, Zzoey, that sounds awful and I think that you have every right to be angry about it. I would be furious.

Now, I have to stop wasting my life on these threads, compelling as they are, and do some work

Maria - you sound like you've got it sussed.

Well, threads like these are helpful because they remind me that as a parent, you've got to trust your instincts. The lack of discussion and dissension in Steiner schools is really hard and hearing all of you lot rant and rave is inspiring

Maria - When my son started at Steiner KG I was so relieved to have found an alternative to his miserable state primary that I tried really hard to be a good 'Steiner' parent and follow the diktats. I then spent years feeling torn between trying to do the Steiner thing and my own sons' and DH's interests in all things modern and electronic. Life feels a lot more normal now. It's not like they spend all day in front of the TV or PC, it's just that I don't feel that guilt or dread that the teachers are going to look at me with that sad frown and ask 'have they been watching TV again?'

Maria - you sound more strong-minded than I was!!

"Wind, sometimes blow hard, sometimes soft, and sometimes not at all."

This is SO typical of waldorf wisdom

... Anyway, I think being dragged to school by mean anthros was... well... not nice. But being bored every minute of every day because there was no education, no learning, no meaningful existance in school - I think that's almost worse. I feel those years between 3 and 12 were totally wasted. It's just so unbelievably boring to know every day is going to be the same wasteland of nothingness. The same damn water-blob-paintings over and over again. The same blah blah blah from the teacher. Talking is lost on me, I need to see things in writing. That doesn't work in a school where the written word is forbidden.

One problem I have is I can't stand being borded. I can't watch TV because it's too slow, and I get bored. I can never imagine having to return to that boredom that was imposed by waldorf. But back then, you had no choice, you had to sit there being bored to death, counting the seconds before school was out. I think if someone sent me back there now, as an adult, in a time machine, I would die of a stress-induced heart attack within an hour. Because of the boredom.

I would've loved to do maths excercises, grammar, reading about real things...

Anything with words and numbers, and I'd been a lot happier.

That's one reason I don't think waldorf i child-centred at all. They force their stupid crafts and painting and flute playing and eurythmy down the throats of bored children - and at least quite a large number of those kids have completely different needs.

Wow Zzoey, you sound just like my son!

He's moving into class 1 next year. I hope things are different, but if not, he'll definitely be going mainstream come Christmas.

It's interesting to hear you because it's very hard as a parent to know what's going on and pretty much every 6 year old boy I know (in Steiner and out) hates school and thinks it's boring. I suspect many six year old boys aren't designed for school. However, I did assume they at least tried to engage the kids . Not so sure anymore...

Got a meeting tomorrow, sure to hear more about his soul

In my kid's school, one particular teacher had a problem with energetic boys. One of the boys in her class was on medication to "calm him down" - so she so nothing wrong with distributing the medication (provided by the boy's parents) to other boys who also needed calming down. It wasn't until she needed a refill (in 1/3 the time it should have taken) that the parents discovered what she had been doing. The school pretended it was nothing - even described the medication to other parents who voiced concern as "gummy bears". The teacher eventually quit under pressure but is currently working at the same school as a teacher trainer. It seems the ones who flunk out of teaching can still find work TEACHING THE NEW TEACHERS.

Maria, you sound really sussed and together!
You know, if things hadn't begun to go wrong, we would have stayed probably too... it was only when the anthroposophical nonsense was used to make such cruel decisions about our kids, and we questioned them, and got nothing back, that we decided enough.
My husband said quite early on he felt it was a cult.
If we hadn't gone on having meetings, questioning their choices, and everything had gone smoothly, I would have gone along like you. Taken some bits and ignored the rest.We were teaching them stuff at home too. Lots of stuff.And they went to a friend who's a writer, to write stories and plays.

If your kids are happy, moving them is extra hard. Ours were totally miserable though, so it was easy.
Janni, your decision was so brave.

Pete, that's shocking
Can't you be prosocuted for that?
And the woman who tied kids to their chairs?
Wasn't the law brought in?
Good grief, they get away with so much!

"Can't you be prosocuted for that?"

In private school you give up rights - She can't be prosecuted for it - they don't even have to fire her (it would be mandatory termination in public school) - and they didn't. When she finally quit (after being outed publicly by yours truly among others) the school was begging her to stay. It's incredible how twisted these people are.

There's a woman who has had a child at steiner school , who is going to go down the route of social services I think, because of the way her kid was treated/neglected.
And HM inspectors or something.
Even if they're private, children do have rights

Dh has just related a story on raio 4 6o'clock news, about a teacher at a Kent steiner school being reprimanded for lighting a cigarette and letin two kids smoke it in class!
I didn't hear the story, so dh may have got it wrong.
Wonder what lesson it was.
Science, "smoke blows sometimes it doesn't blow, sometimes it gives you cancer"

To me, smoking cigarettes in class doesn't seem like such a bad thing. I've been through waldorf - lots of worse stuff happened

Not that I think kids should be taught to smoke, but relative to my waldorf experiences, smoking cigarettes seems like a holiday adventure with grandpa.

I know of one person who, as a 13 year old, was prescribed cigarettes by an Anthroposophical doctor. Apparently, cigarettes help ground you or something. Technically, what could be more "grounding" than being planted 6 feet under?

LOL all of you.

It used to be a joke,

"How do you tell a Waldorf first grader?"

"He's the one with the pack of cigarettes rolled in his shirtsleeves."

Well, Zooey, I agree, ther were FAR worse things.
But I'd still rather my kids weren't encouraged to smoke by a teacher.
In UK , smoking is reakly frowned upon these days. Joints are acceptable, Tobacco no way!

It's frowned upon here too these days. Almost to the point of hysteria. I don't smoke, never did, but I spent my childhood (up to 7) with someone smoking incessantly. Today that would be considered immoral and very unhealthy

That was my grandpa, and he eventually - after smoking loads of cigarettes every day for 80 years (!!) - was "grounded" Perhaps he was like me, his spirit not really descending but hovering about.

Did any of you see the article in the Daily Mail headlined, "Parents pull children out of Steiner school after teacher passes round cigarette to class?"

The article ended by saying that a Department for Education study reports "the consequences of successful Steiner education may take many years to unfold in a person's life."

That should ring very loud alarm bells for parents considering it for their children.

Those of us who know a little about Steiner "education" might also be wondering which life Steiner's followers might be referring to--this one or some life in a future incarnation for which Steiner teachers believe they are preparing the children; perhaps the consequences will be unfolding in the epoch when, as Steiner taught, men will give birth through their larynxes; or after the races Steiner considered undesirable no longer exist; or when Anthroposophists rule the world.

It's the robot response, that anthroposophy isn't actually taught. The anthros think they can get away with it by saying that, and not elaborating.

I also heartily object to their liberal use of the word "freedom", when in fact the constructions of Steiner's belief system is anything but "free".
Its rigid in it's theme and the way it's used in the classroom and camphil, and bio dynamic agriculture too. Steiners words are followed .. religiously.
They don't stray from him. the children aren't allowed to question or discussthe sacred word of the teacher, who in his/her turn is following Steiner's sacred word.

"does not infringe upon the personal spiritual freedom of the pupils:"

Oh, yes. The spiritual freedom, presented as a fact. What about intellectual freedom? freedom to learn and to know? Freedom to think for oneself?

Nope. The spiritual freedom aims at making sure the child's spiritual potential, as understood by anthroposophy, will develop. Because they think the soul is actually this entity within the child - and it can be influenced by the child being immersed in anthroposophy and spirituality.

Freedom means something entirely different than it does for most people

"Anthroposophy... should become a way of life, involving the entire human being."

Says it all.

"anthroposophy... is a subject for grownups and, as one can see from the color of their hair, often for quite mature adults!"

Haha. I wonder what hair colour. Black curly, perchance?

"'the consequences of successful Steiner education may take many years to unfold in a person's life.'"

Now I was frightened. Will I turn into an anthroposophical monster at any time

No, but that's really an alarmbell ringing very loudly.

Northern: They are robots!

(One pedagogy professor from Finland has written an article on that subject: the non-freedom of waldorf education. He makes exactly that point, there is no freedom as we define it. They use the concept entirely differently.)

The insect mysteriously disappeared again. How come?!

Is there an other thread going on? Have I lost track?