DD depressed she didn't get into Cambridge

[alannacarter]

Hi All,

Need some advice here please. My daughter applied to do Maths at Cambridge this year but got rejected after interview. She did a summer internship at St John's College and was hopeful she would have a chance but is now beyond distraught at the outcome. She had the results since Jan/Feb I think and has been really down since. She now believes people need to be geniuses to get in and that she is just not good enough for Maths. She got an offer from Warwick but is super high at AAA* and offers from Manchester and Liverpool. She didn't go to good schools and we unfortunately didn't know better at the time. Still she works super hard and is predicted good results, just don't know if enough for Warwick, fingers crossed. I don't know if this is a teenager thing but how can I get Cambridge out of her head? She just thinks she is not good enough in general. Thank you.

One of my DC had a rejection from Oxford for maths, and went to Warwick (they weren’t sure they wanted Oxbridge anyway). They loved Warwick, did maths and stats in the end, got a first, and 7 years post grad are loving life in a job that pays extremely well. They had a lot of Oxbridge rejects in their cohort, and many privately educated students (they went to the local comp) but thrived there, and are firmly of the view that Oxbridge would not have served them better.

This means every year there are close to 300 kids who get their A-stars at A level but miss their STEP offer and end up at their insurance choice (usually one of imperial, warwick, durham or UCL).

This happened to my son's friend who got 4 A stars but missed his STEP. He didn't settle at his second choice either. I know of other kids in the same boat and frankly it would put me off applying to Cambridge over Oxford for a science.

Friends with kids there say it's very intense and while their kids have enjoyed the prestige of being at Oxford/Cambridge, they felt they hadn't really 'enjoyed' it. But she may not have that realisation/acceptance until she starts at Warwick (or wherever) so it's hard to take the rejection on the chin initially.

One of my friends from school did Maths at Warwick and her PhD at Manchester. She's now a well-regarded academic (still in the Maths field), so both those Unis are clearly great too!

My DD is studying a STEM subject at Cambridge and is hating it. She is constantly struggling with the huge workload, gets poor results despite her hard work, and her mental health is in tatters as a result. I truly wish she’d never got in. She got all A* at A level but it isn’t enough and it’s crushed her.

@Sadtimesnow
Thats so sad, I’m sorry. I’ve had three at uni, all happy eventually, but it hasn’t been an easy ride for one in particular. Is there anything you can do? How far through is she? Can she apply for a LOA on medical grounds? Or a transfer to a different course, or even different uni?

Let her watch Saltburn.

Presumably that was meant for the OP and not @Sadtimesnow ...

Thank you @Maybeicanhelpyou. I’ve tried to explore all these other options but she’s determined to keep going (having had her studies interrupted due to earlier illness). She’s got her year 3 exams very soon which will determine whether she can continue to year 4… amazingly she wants to despite the miserable grind she experiences.

@Sadtimesnow She sounds just like my eldest. Was just beyond miserable the whole way through. We helped by seeing her as often as possible, taking her out etc… it was really hard to watch. She got there in the end. But now says it wasn’t worth it!! With her course it would have been tricky to change unfortunately.
My third dd did take a LOA and change courses, she’s happy now.
So it can be done if needs must.

I think there is far to much emphasis put on Oxford /Cambridge being the be all end all place to study and consequently a lot of stressed and disappointed students.

Is the gap year ban specific to Cambridge or specific to maths? Could she not apply for a maths-adjacent subject without essays and which has a higher acceptance rate, like biochemistry? (No idea whether that involves essays or not, but used to be easy to get into at Oxford for people with straight As who balked at applying for maths.)

It's a shame if taking a gap year was definitely off the table. It used to be the standard choice for Oxbridge rejects, and I suppose the time out gave them space to process the rejection, so that failing a second time might have stung less (I speculate, though pps have said that the rejection still stung years later). Obviously only applicable if you've got the funds for fancy gap year jaunts and wouldn't just be suffering through awful McJobs and then sitting in your bedroom alone - that would just reinforce the unhappiness.

Anyway, every Oxford graduate knows people smarter than them who got rejected, or who never applied in the first place.

@Brexile I did a maths degree (at Cambridge) with a gap year way back when there was '7th term' exams. I think a gap year with maths is a bad idea. I definitely got rusty and out of the habit of learning maths.

That said I don't think I would have got in at all if applying now, I struggled when there. Should have switched to computing.

I am sorry for your DD’s experience, OP.

I write as a former STEM admissions tutor in a School with not only Oxbridge rejects but Oxbridge transfers - do know that the place doesn’t suit everyone. In fact DH was a UG Cambridge mathematician who got a Distinction at Part III, but that was the only year that he enjoyed intellectually. He also turned down the chance to do a (funded) PhD there in favour of a red brick that was not so removed from the real world. He has had a great career as an RG Maths professor and at the same level in America.

Do keep in mind the figures from @piisnot3 : DD had only about a 50% chance of clearing the STEP hurdle, as Cambridge set the grade boundaries to control their intake. It would have been a long, stressful summer.

I taught in America for about 15 years and want to second @mathanxiety ’s suggestion of considering American universities if DD is not happy with her British options, although I emphasise that she has excellent ones. Americans don’t specialise from the start snd students must satisfy General Education requirements, so a gap year is not a problem. However there will be essays during the first two years!

The universities that @mathanxiety listed publicise formulas for aid. For example, at Harvard a student with a family income of $100,000 will never write a check, full stop. These 7 universities operate transparently, with similar thresholds, aid systems and parity for international students. But others such as the outstanding (partic for Maths) University of Chicago also offer ‘no loan’ parity to internationals (meaning aid is provided via grants, needs based scholarships and light employment - the last is very common in the US) and appear to be essentially needs blind, if less transparent. The Fulbright Foundation website contains lots of helpful information. (The FF promotes bilateral US-UK education. It is named after Senator William Fulbright. Fulbright Scholarships are v prestigious. I think Bill Clinton took one to Oxford. But I digress)

NB it is the famous public universities such as Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, etc that are very expensive for internationals, as virtually all aid goes to in-state residents. Too bad as those 3 have great maths also!

I take my hat off to anyone who does a maths degree

Your dd really needs to get over this. My dd was rejected from Cambridge despite being predicted and then eventually getting 3 A stars. She got over it pretty quickly and is very happy at her current university
If your dd is set on going to Cambridge she could do a postgraduate course there

The Cambridge maths degree is considered by some to be the hardest in the world. An extended family member worked in their maths department and says their students are just very different animals to other exceptionally bright students.

No shame in not getting in, its not the be all and end all. There are other excellent universities for maths that have been mentioned already. Just being good enough to apply is a significant achievement.

My own DC is very talented at maths and passed GCSE just after primary school. Taught themselves the entire AS level maths curriculum in year 9 and 10 and recently easily got an A in a mock exam. Has entered maths events and challenges at school etc but as much as I’d be pleased if they got into Cambridge (especially given the family connection), we’re already managing expectations so that they wouldn’t feel too gutted if they didn’t get in.

I don’t know what your child’s career aspirations are but many of the best/highest paying jobs that require advanced maths in say, finance or tech, require a masters or PhD. They can always apply to Cambridge to do a further degree.

Yes of course it is for the OP.Isn't that assumed when you respond to a thread? Oxbridge is not the be all and end all and to have a child struggling with their mental health whatever the cause is an absolute trial for both parent and more so for the person going through it, I hope they get support to help them through it.

Remind her that she can always apply to Cambridge for a Masters? I do understand her disappointment though, but she'll get through it and will be all the more resilient for it. She sounds like a capable, driven girl and she'll do well either way.